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AACHM Oral History: Janie Lee Ross

When: July 20, 2023

Janie Lee RossJanie Lee Ross was born in 1921 in Jackson, Tennessee. Her father was a church deacon, and she remembers attending choir rehearsals. In the 1940s she and her husband Thomas moved to Chicago, and she went to practical nursing school. They moved to Ann Arbor in 1951 and purchased a home on Fifth Avenue. They opened their home to many friends and relatives who needed a place to stay. Ross was a nurse’s aid at St. Joe’s Hospital and a custodian in Ann Arbor Public Schools. She has four children–Charlotte, Thomas, Carol, and Eugene (Bobby)–and many grandchildren and great-grandchildren.

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Transcript

  • [00:00:18] JOETTA MIAL: [MUSIC] First, I want to thank you, Ms. Ross, for agreeing to be interviewed. I'm honored to have someone your age help out and have your story told in our archives. I'm going to get started with just some small stuff like your name and how old you are, your ethnic background, we call that demographics. Please say and spell your name.
  • [00:00:54] CAROL ALLEN: She wants your name. Janie Lee Ross. J-A-N-I-E L-E-E R-O-S-S
  • [00:01:16] JOETTA MIAL: Do you know what year you were born?
  • [00:01:18] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:01:18] CAROL ALLEN: Tell her.
  • [00:01:29] JANIE LEE ROSS: July 23rd, 1923.
  • [00:01:30] CAROL ALLEN: Excuse me, 1921. July 23rd, 1921.
  • [00:01:40] JANIE LEE ROSS: You are right. You know it better than me.
  • [00:01:43] CAROL ALLEN: That's all right.
  • [00:01:47] JOETTA MIAL: How how would you describe your ethnic background?
  • [00:01:50] JANIE LEE ROSS: How old will I be?
  • [00:01:53] CAROL ALLEN: What what is your background? Your heritage? African American.
  • [00:01:59] JANIE LEE ROSS: Oh, yeah.
  • [00:02:03] JOETTA MIAL: African American. What is your religion or church?
  • [00:02:17] JANIE LEE ROSS: Baptist.
  • [00:02:18] CAROL ALLEN: Bethel.
  • [00:02:20] JANIE LEE ROSS: Bethel.
  • [00:02:20] CAROL ALLEN: Originally, she was Baptist until we came to Ann Arbor, which was 71 years ago.
  • [00:02:32] JOETTA MIAL: What is the highest level of formal education you have completed?
  • [00:02:42] CAROL ALLEN: How far did you go in school, Mom, 10th grade or 12th grade?
  • [00:02:46] JANIE LEE ROSS: No, 12th grade.
  • [00:02:50] CAROL ALLEN: She finished high school.
  • [00:02:52] JOETTA MIAL: Oh, wonderful. Did you have any more schooling after that?
  • [00:03:01] JANIE LEE ROSS: Practical nurse.
  • [00:03:03] CAROL ALLEN: She went to practical nursing school in Chicago in the 1950s.
  • [00:03:15] JOETTA MIAL: Have you been married?
  • [00:03:18] JANIE LEE ROSS: I've been married. [LAUGHTER] Yes, I have been married.
  • [00:03:23] JOETTA MIAL: Okay.
  • [00:03:23] CAROL ALLEN: For how long? Fifty-two years.
  • [00:03:28] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yes, 52.
  • [00:03:31] CAROL ALLEN: Dad passed away at 71. It's been a little while.
  • [00:03:35] JOETTA MIAL: Oh, wow. How many children did you have?
  • [00:03:41] JANIE LEE ROSS: Let's see.
  • [00:03:52] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. Charlotte, Thomas Blaine Jr., Carol, which is me, and--
  • [00:04:03] JANIE LEE ROSS: And Virginia.
  • [00:04:03] CAROL ALLEN: Alvis Eugene, which was Bobby. Two boys.
  • [00:04:09] JANIE LEE ROSS: Two girls.
  • [00:04:12] JOETTA MIAL: Two boys and three girls?
  • [00:04:15] CAROL ALLEN: No. Two boys and two girls, two of each.
  • [00:04:17] JOETTA MIAL: Two boys and two girls. Did you have any brothers or sisters?
  • [00:04:24] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yes. Gosh.
  • [00:04:28] CAROL ALLEN: They were 12 of them. She's number 8. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:04:36] JANIE LEE ROSS: I had them.
  • [00:04:38] JOETTA MIAL: You had them, okay. What was your primary occupation?
  • [00:04:46] JANIE LEE ROSS: Twelfth grade.
  • [00:04:48] CAROL ALLEN: Custodian, Ann Arbor School.
  • [00:04:50] JOETTA MIAL: A custodian in the Ann Arbor schools? How long did you do this, do you remember?
  • [00:05:05] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah, I loved it, I do.
  • [00:05:07] CAROL ALLEN: How long did you work for the schools?
  • [00:05:13] JANIE LEE ROSS: I don't know the exact year but almost finished.
  • [00:05:19] CAROL ALLEN: Twenty years?
  • [00:05:20] JANIE LEE ROSS: I'm almost finished the 12th grade. I was close to it anyway.
  • [00:05:26] CAROL ALLEN: They want to know how long you worked as a custodian for the Ann Arbor school system?
  • [00:05:32] JANIE LEE ROSS: How long did I work?
  • [00:05:34] CAROL ALLEN: Yes, ma'am.
  • [00:05:35] JANIE LEE ROSS: Twenty years.
  • [00:05:35] CAROL ALLEN: Twenty years maybe?
  • [00:05:43] JANIE LEE ROSS: Something like that.
  • [00:05:45] CAROL ALLEN: We'll go with 20.
  • [00:05:49] JOETTA MIAL: Did you retire after that? Did you start work anyplace else or? Did you retire?
  • [00:05:56] JANIE LEE ROSS: Did I do what?
  • [00:05:58] CAROL ALLEN: Work anyplace else or did you retire from the school system? Can I interrupt? I don't mean to interrupt. The first job I remember my mother having was the nurse's aide at the old St. Joe on Ingalls. She worked there about four or five years. Then she became a custodian through the school system and she worked with lots of the schools, mostly the elementary and junior high schools. I think the last one she worked at was Mack School. She was a head custodian at her last job.
  • [00:06:43] JOETTA MIAL: Do you remember what age she retired?
  • [00:06:49] CAROL ALLEN: How old were you when you retired mama? Sixty, 65? Do you remember? I don't remember. How old were you when you stopped working at Mack School?
  • [00:07:01] JANIE LEE ROSS: Oh, gosh.
  • [00:07:05] CAROL ALLEN: Maybe 70?
  • [00:07:07] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yes, something like that.
  • [00:07:08] CAROL ALLEN: I say between 65 and 70. I didn't do research on that. I'd have to look it up. I'm sorry.
  • [00:07:14] JOETTA MIAL: You've been retired a long time. The next part we're going to talk about, what you can remember from your childhood and youth. I'm going to ask you some questions about when you were a child.
  • [00:07:36] JANIE LEE ROSS: I remember being a little girl. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:07:48] CAROL ALLEN: How old were you that you remember? Five, six, seven?
  • [00:07:58] JANIE LEE ROSS: I guess I was five.
  • [00:08:05] CAROL ALLEN: She grew up in Jackson, Tennessee in an area called Fites Bottom. Fites Bottom had a flour mill and she used to get in trouble for playing in the flour mill. [LAUGHTER] My mother has always been very strong willed.
  • [00:08:27] JANIE LEE ROSS: I liked to play in it.
  • [00:08:29] CAROL ALLEN: You liked to play in it she's saying. [LAUGHTER].
  • [00:08:30] JANIE LEE ROSS: Stir it up. [LAUGHTER].
  • [00:08:35] CAROL ALLEN: Stir it up. Yes.
  • [00:08:40] JOETTA MIAL: Do you remember what work your parents did?
  • [00:08:44] CAROL ALLEN: What work did grandpapa do? Grandma was a housekeeper.
  • [00:08:50] JANIE LEE ROSS: He worked at a flour mill.
  • [00:08:50] CAROL ALLEN: There was a flour mill right there and Fites Bottom. And Fites Bottom had houses that the people lived in. Now they tore them all down, they have a retirement center there. They lived in Jackson, Tennessee, then they moved to Alton. He still worked at the flour mill Alton, Illinois, that's where I was born.
  • [00:09:22] JOETTA MIAL: You said you remember when you were five. Tell me the earliest memory you have of being a child.
  • [00:09:33] JANIE LEE ROSS: When I was a child?
  • [00:09:34] CAROL ALLEN: How young were you that you remember?
  • [00:09:37] JANIE LEE ROSS: All kinds of devilment, I know that. [LAUGHTER] [OVERLAPPING] All kinds of devilment I'd get into.
  • [00:09:48] CAROL ALLEN: What?
  • [00:09:49] JANIE LEE ROSS: I had to get a whooping.
  • [00:09:51] CAROL ALLEN: Playing in the flour mill?
  • [00:09:52] JANIE LEE ROSS: Anything.
  • [00:09:53] CAROL ALLEN: Did you mess with the railroad tracks?
  • [00:09:56] JANIE LEE ROSS: Loads of devilment. Doing stuff I didn't have no business. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:10:03] JOETTA MIAL: That's probably why you have lived as long as you have by doing devilment. Were there any special days, events or family traditions you remember from your childhood? Any special celebrations?
  • [00:10:27] JANIE LEE ROSS: I liked to dance.
  • [00:10:30] CAROL ALLEN: She wants to know if like you have reunions or parties or church.
  • [00:10:34] JANIE LEE ROSS: I liked to dance.
  • [00:10:36] CAROL ALLEN: She liked dancing.
  • [00:10:37] JOETTA MIAL: Oh okay.
  • [00:10:40] CAROL ALLEN: And so do I. I got to tell the story. I never knew my mother could dance. We had a party at Island Park, she must have been 90 years old or maybe older and she out-danced me. I couldn't dance. I was just frozen. I just started laughing. I didn't know my mother couldn't move like that, she was unbelievable.
  • [00:11:06] JOETTA MIAL: I heard about that. I heard about her dancing at the park.
  • [00:11:11] CAROL ALLEN: That was her 100th birthday she danced. With her great nephew and kept step. It's unbelievable.
  • [00:11:20] JOETTA MIAL: Oh, my.
  • [00:11:23] CAROL ALLEN: At Wheeler Park.
  • [00:11:26] JOETTA MIAL: Yes. That, I heard about.
  • [00:11:30] CAROL ALLEN: It was beautiful.
  • [00:11:30] JOETTA MIAL: You're a famous celebrity for dancing at 100.
  • [00:11:34] JANIE LEE ROSS: I love to dance. That's my favorite thing.
  • [00:11:39] CAROL ALLEN: But Joetta, she kept that a secret from me for years. I didn't know until a couple of years ago. [LAUGHTER] It was something.
  • [00:11:51] JOETTA MIAL: What holidays did your family celebrate?
  • [00:11:58] JANIE LEE ROSS: How did?
  • [00:11:58] CAROL ALLEN: Fourth of July, we had reunions from the late '80s until about '21, '22. My youngest granddaughter is 23. She was two then. We had reunions, that was a big thing in the family. We've been everywhere, Tennessee, we've been to Chicago, we've been in Michigan, St. Louis, Illinois, we've been a lot of places. That was the time when we really got together.
  • [00:12:37] JOETTA MIAL: Did you celebrate Christmas and Thanksgiving?
  • [00:12:42] CAROL ALLEN: That was mostly just local family. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:12:44] JANIE LEE ROSS: That was my favorite time of the year.
  • [00:12:46] CAROL ALLEN: That was locally, but the time that the whole family would get together, would be on the 4th of July.
  • [00:12:53] JOETTA MIAL: And these were your reunions?
  • [00:12:55] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. My daddy's side and my mother's side. I was born in Alton, Illinois. My grandparents on my father's side was there and my mother's side. I didn't want to come to Michigan. I was five years old when I came to what is now the Gandy Dancer, and I did not want to be here because I had to leave all my relatives. I can remember that today and I'm 77.
  • [00:13:23] JANIE LEE ROSS: I was a grown up.
  • [00:13:24] CAROL ALLEN: Yeah, you were.
  • [00:13:26] JANIE LEE ROSS: I never did want to be the youngest. I always wanted to be the oldest.
  • [00:13:31] CAROL ALLEN: She's always been the leader.
  • [00:13:34] JOETTA MIAL: Okay.
  • [00:13:35] CAROL ALLEN: She's the one that gets them all going. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:13:42] JOETTA MIAL: Did you do any other activities outside of school, like church activities, or playing a sport, or singing, [OVERLAPPING] or dancing.
  • [00:13:59] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:14:00] CAROL ALLEN: When you were a little girl, she had asthma really bad. Did you do anything, mamma, besides go to school?
  • [00:14:06] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah, I used to sing when I was a little girl.
  • [00:14:09] CAROL ALLEN: You didn't tell me that?
  • [00:14:11] JANIE LEE ROSS: Sure, my daddy take me.
  • [00:14:13] CAROL ALLEN: My grandfather was a deacon in the church, so she probably did a lot of activities there.
  • [00:14:19] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah, I followed him everywhere he went. [LAUGHTER] Dad was my favorite, my dad.
  • [00:14:32] JOETTA MIAL: Do you know if your family had any special sayings like families sometime make up little things?
  • [00:14:43] JANIE LEE ROSS: I used to love to hear my brother sing. He used to sing so good.
  • [00:14:52] CAROL ALLEN: Who?
  • [00:14:52] JANIE LEE ROSS: Charles.
  • [00:14:52] CAROL ALLEN: I didn't know that. She wants to know if you had any special sayings. Special sayings like the one you always tell me when I'm telling you you're old and you say, "Just keep living." [LAUGHTER]. You'll get there. She wants to know if your mom and dad ever said stuff like that.
  • [00:15:13] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah, they had special. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:15:15] CAROL ALLEN: What did poppa used to say?
  • [00:15:16] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:15:17] CAROL ALLEN: My grandfather didn't talk a lot, but he could pray like nobody, I've never seen it anywhere except for my niece's son could pray like him. Or he did pray in Bethel, like my grandfather. It's funny how things [OVERLAPPING].
  • [00:15:39] JOETTA MIAL: At Bethel?
  • [00:15:41] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. Debbie Harvard's grandson, Cassandra's son, he prayed in Bethel. I'm trying to think which minister was there, I don't remember if it was Reverend Criglar, but he could pray like that.
  • [00:15:58] CAROL ALLEN: Oh, my.
  • [00:16:00] CAROL ALLEN: My grandfather broke the grounds for the church in Illinois. That's where I was born, before they built the new church.
  • [00:16:07] JANIE LEE ROSS: I was my dad's special person.
  • [00:16:09] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. She was sickly so he babied her into nonexistence [LAUGHTER] and I'm glad he did because she's still here.
  • [00:16:19] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah, he did.
  • [00:16:20] CAROL ALLEN: She had asthma really bad.
  • [00:16:22] JANIE LEE ROSS: My favorite things with my daddy.
  • [00:16:32] JOETTA MIAL: Were there any changes in your family life during your school years? You talked about moving anything in your family that affected you. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:16:48] JANIE LEE ROSS: That much. We didn't move that much.
  • [00:16:51] CAROL ALLEN: My three oldest aunts and uncles were born in Macon, Mississippi. Momma's oldest sister that was still alive was born there. The other children were born in Jackson, Tennessee. They move from Mississippi to Jackson, Tennessee. She told me all these stories. that's why I'm telling them.
  • [00:17:14] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:17:16] CAROL ALLEN: Mother was born in Tennessee, the four oldest children were born in Mississippi.
  • [00:17:22] CAROL ALLEN: Okay.
  • [00:17:25] CAROL ALLEN: They didn't move from Tennessee to Illinois. Was it Aunt Maudy that moved first?
  • [00:17:32] JANIE LEE ROSS: Uh-uh.
  • [00:17:34] CAROL ALLEN: Mamma's sister, that's just older than her moved to Illinois, and then the whole family moved. Everybody.
  • [00:17:42] JOETTA MIAL: Everybody moved? Okay.
  • [00:17:44] CAROL ALLEN: Everybody. All my aunts and their siblings and children moved to Alton, Illinois where I was born.
  • [00:17:50] JOETTA MIAL: And everybody just did okay there?
  • [00:17:53] CAROL ALLEN: But mom outdid them. She moved to Chicago because her brother was there. And when I saw my mother, she was the prettiest thing I'd ever seen.
  • [00:18:04] JOETTA MIAL: Oh, my, so are you going to have some pictures for us?
  • [00:18:09] CAROL ALLEN: I'll try to find some. I don't know if I have them when she was that young. Yes, I do have some of her, yeah, I've got some. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:18:15] JOETTA MIAL: Well, good.
  • [00:18:17] CAROL ALLEN: My mother was real petite when she was young.
  • [00:18:21] JANIE LEE ROSS: And she was really pretty.
  • [00:18:22] CAROL ALLEN: Yes, she was. She moved to Chicago.
  • [00:18:29] JANIE LEE ROSS: She was real red. She wasn't real light. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:18:32] CAROL ALLEN: They're talking about you, not your mom.
  • [00:18:36] JANIE LEE ROSS: She was red, skin was red.
  • [00:18:38] CAROL ALLEN: Yeah. Grandma was red. Grandpapa was a pretty chocolate with gray eyes. My grandfather had grey eyes and he was dark.
  • [00:18:43] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah, he had gray eyes.
  • [00:18:48] CAROL ALLEN: And my grandmother was red. They had children from dark chocolate all the way to fair fair.
  • [00:18:57] JANIE LEE ROSS: They had 12.
  • [00:18:59] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. I've got the names right here. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:19:04] JANIE LEE ROSS: There was 12 of us.
  • [00:19:06] CAROL ALLEN: I've got your names right here. I'm so glad you told me all this stuff or else nobody. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:19:10] JOETTA MIAL: I am too. [LAUGHTER] You lived during the era of segregation? Can you talk about that at all? Was your school segregated? Was your elementary school near you? Was there a high school for Black students?
  • [00:19:32] CAROL ALLEN: Was everything separated from the whites and the Blacks when you grew up in Tennessee?
  • [00:19:36] JANIE LEE ROSS: Uh-huh.
  • [00:19:36] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. When we went to Tennessee, I was 12, that was in the '50s, and we didn't know about segregation because we grew up in Ann Arbor. It was subtle in Ann Arbor. It wasn't blatant like there. We went to a water fountain drinking and we didn't know we weren't supposed to do these things. [LAUGHTER] There is a God, he took care of us, nothing happened. And my brother, you can get in a fight with a white kid and nothing happened. [LAUGHTER] We really didn't know. Ann Arbor was different. I came here in '51, so it was an opening. Ann Arbor was a pretty liberal town considering. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:20:26] JANIE LEE ROSS: My mother was a very religious person.
  • [00:20:30] CAROL ALLEN: Both of your parents were religious.
  • [00:20:32] JANIE LEE ROSS: And my daddy.
  • [00:20:33] CAROL ALLEN: They were.
  • [00:20:39] CAROL ALLEN: Which was a good thing.
  • [00:20:42] CAROL ALLEN: Yes.
  • [00:20:42] CAROL ALLEN: All the kids went to school. Were you home-schooled mama or did you go to school? She had asthma really bad. Did you go to school?
  • [00:20:52] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:20:53] CAROL ALLEN: You went to 11th grade? You didn't get to go to 12th grade. In 1951 when we came here, mom was in school in Chicago to get her LPN. She almost finished, but she decided to come to Ann Arbor instead. Else she would have completed that. That was a big deal back then in 1951.
  • [00:21:27] JOETTA MIAL: Who were the teachers? Did you have Black teachers? You had Black teachers in Tennessee?
  • [00:21:34] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah. Ms. Tinny.
  • [00:21:40] CAROL ALLEN: Ms. Tinny?
  • [00:21:41] JANIE LEE ROSS: Uh-huh. Ms. Payne.
  • [00:21:48] CAROL ALLEN: Payne? Was the school on the same ground as the church?
  • [00:21:53] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:21:56] CAROL ALLEN: The movie Walk Tall, Joetta, was filmed in the church where my mother grew up in Tennessee.
  • [00:22:04] JOETTA MIAL: Oh my.
  • [00:22:04] CAROL ALLEN: What's the name of that ?
  • [00:22:08] JANIE LEE ROSS: Walnut Grove.
  • [00:22:09] CAROL ALLEN: Walnut Grove. It was filmed in Walnut Grove. That's the church my mother grew up in and a lot of her relatives and our relatives are buried there. I didn't know that, but that's where that was filmed.
  • [00:22:27] JOETTA MIAL: Do you remember anything about when Black visitors came to town, where they stayed or were they separate restaurants?
  • [00:22:39] CAROL ALLEN: In Ann Arbor or Tennessee? In Ann Arbor?
  • [00:22:44] JOETTA MIAL: Yes.
  • [00:22:45] CAROL ALLEN: Know where most people stayed when I was a little girl?
  • [00:22:47] JOETTA MIAL: Where.
  • [00:22:49] CAROL ALLEN: The housing they had. They stayed with people that lived here. We stayed with my uncle Mr. Little, Nella Little and Curtis. That was my mama's uncle and we stayed on Wright Street. That house isn't there anymore. They bought the house and they tore it down, and the house from Pontiac Trail has the backyard where the house used to be. Most people that came here that were Black stayed with people that were already here. A lot of people stayed with my parents in the house on Fifth Ave because they didn't have any place to go, so they would rent it. I can tell you some of the people we stayed with. Then we stayed with Mrs. Jones on Daniels and Summit. That house is still there. We stayed up there. I've never been so glad to get a house in my life. We couldn't walk too much at night. She was pretty old, but she let us stay there. She had a little trouble with young kids running around but we survived.
  • [00:23:54] JOETTA MIAL: Survived. She's going to be 102 years, yes she survived.
  • [00:23:58] CAROL ALLEN: Yes.
  • [00:24:00] JOETTA MIAL: We're going on to Part 3, which talks about adulthood, marriage, and family life. This question covers a very long period of time. From the time you completed your education, entered the workforce and started a family and until all of your children left home and or your spouse retired. We might be talking about a stretch of 40 years. Let's take this first. From the time you completed your education and entered the workforce, when was that?
  • [00:25:04] CAROL ALLEN: When did you get your first job? How old were you? 30?
  • [00:25:09] JANIE LEE ROSS: I can't even remember.
  • [00:25:13] CAROL ALLEN: When you were in Chicago, how old were you? In your late '20s?
  • [00:25:16] JANIE LEE ROSS: I wasn't 30 years old. I wasn't that old.
  • [00:25:21] CAROL ALLEN: You weren't that old? I was six when I came here so you had to be in your late '20s.
  • [00:25:30] JANIE LEE ROSS: That could be. You were six.
  • [00:25:31] CAROL ALLEN: I was 6 years old.
  • [00:25:32] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah, I couldn't have been 30 if you were six.
  • [00:25:38] CAROL ALLEN: Late '20s.
  • [00:25:41] JOETTA MIAL: After you finished high school, where did you live?
  • [00:25:47] CAROL ALLEN: Alton?
  • [00:25:48] JANIE LEE ROSS: I think I got married.
  • [00:25:52] JOETTA MIAL: Okay.
  • [00:25:52] CAROL ALLEN: Alton, Illinois.
  • [00:25:54] JANIE LEE ROSS: I got married when I finished high school.
  • [00:25:59] JOETTA MIAL: Okay.
  • [00:26:03] CAROL ALLEN: She stayed in Tennessee about a year after she got married.
  • [00:26:06] JANIE LEE ROSS: In Jackson.
  • [00:26:10] JOETTA MIAL: Did her husband leave with her?
  • [00:26:13] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. They came to Alton, Illinois because my sister was born in Jackson. My brother that's older than me was born in Alton and I was born in Alton and my brother was born in Alton, Illinois. My oldest sister was born in Jackson, Tennessee in a segregated hospital. They had asked for Blacks and in Jackson but when I came to, this is funny, don't laugh too hard. My cousin told me this and I didn't know. I was born in St. Joe in Alton, Illinois. But this is what he says, yes, you were born in the St. Joe but you were born in the basement. I said so what? [LAUGHTER] Anyway, I was born in St. Joe's. It's called St. Claire or something, they changed the name, in Alton, Illinois. This is the same town that the jazz musician was born in. Miles.
  • [00:27:14] JOETTA MIAL: Miles Davis?
  • [00:27:15] CAROL ALLEN: Yes.
  • [00:27:22] JOETTA MIAL: Can you tell me a little bit about your married and family life? Where did you and your husband meet?
  • [00:27:35] JANIE LEE ROSS: We went to school together for a while.
  • [00:27:38] CAROL ALLEN: You told me his cousin introduced you. Remember you said Amadi introduced you to dad?
  • [00:27:44] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:27:45] CAROL ALLEN: Her cousin introduced her to my father. Her cousin was related to my grandmother or something. That's how she met dad in Tennessee. They've been together ever since. [LAUGHTER]
  • [00:28:08] JOETTA MIAL: Oh, my.
  • [00:28:11] CAROL ALLEN: I think they were apart like a year or something, but that's about it.
  • [00:28:21] JOETTA MIAL: Can you tell me what your wedding was like?
  • [00:28:29] JANIE LEE ROSS: What he was like?
  • [00:28:30] CAROL ALLEN: When you got married, what was that like? Did you have a formal wedding or how was it? Can you remember when you and dad got married? Was it the justice of the peace or was it a big blown out wedding?
  • [00:28:47] JANIE LEE ROSS: Big never. [LAUGHTER] We just getting married, period.
  • [00:28:53] CAROL ALLEN: Okay. That'll work.
  • [00:28:56] JOETTA MIAL: Okay
  • [00:28:59] JANIE LEE ROSS: Wasn't no church wedding or nothing. We just got married in the house.
  • [00:29:06] JOETTA MIAL: You got married in the house? Okay. How many children did you have?
  • [00:29:26] JANIE LEE ROSS: Four. Two boys and two girls. Virginia and Carol, and Bobby, and--.
  • [00:29:42] CAROL ALLEN: Thomas Jr.
  • [00:29:44] JANIE LEE ROSS: What's the other one?
  • [00:29:46] CAROL ALLEN: Thomas Lane Jr. Wasn't he?
  • [00:29:49] JANIE LEE ROSS: Thomas Jr.
  • [00:29:50] CAROL ALLEN: Charlotte Virginia, Thomas Lane Jr., Carol and Eugene Alvis Ross. I didn't know my brother's name was Eugene, but it was Eugene. We called him Bobby, everybody called him Bobby.
  • [00:30:08] JOETTA MIAL: Was that four or five kids?
  • [00:30:11] CAROL ALLEN: Four kids.
  • [00:30:12] JOETTA MIAL: Four kids.
  • [00:30:14] CAROL ALLEN: Four.
  • [00:30:17] JOETTA MIAL: Tell me about your children, what was it like when they were young and living in the house?
  • [00:30:25] JANIE LEE ROSS: What was it like living in the house?
  • [00:30:27] CAROL ALLEN: When we were growing up, what was it like?
  • [00:30:29] JANIE LEE ROSS: We'd fight a lot.
  • [00:30:30] CAROL ALLEN: We did everything she told us, trust me.
  • [00:30:33] JANIE LEE ROSS: We'd fight a lot. My mother'd whoop us.
  • [00:30:37] CAROL ALLEN: Not you, us. Ooh, my leg fell asleep. She wants to know how it was for us. When we grew up with you, how the house was for you and your children? How was it having us mum? Were we bad kids or did we do what you told us? [LAUGHTER].
  • [00:31:10] JOETTA MIAL: Did they get into things like you just said you did when you were little?
  • [00:31:15] JANIE LEE ROSS: We all got into some little fights.
  • [00:31:18] CAROL ALLEN: Not you, your children.
  • [00:31:22] JANIE LEE ROSS: My children?
  • [00:31:23] JOETTA MIAL: Yes.
  • [00:31:24] JANIE LEE ROSS: They do now.
  • [00:31:27] CAROL ALLEN: Well, you only got me.
  • [00:31:28] JANIE LEE ROSS: They do till today. They get into fights.
  • [00:31:33] CAROL ALLEN: My brother and sister--my sister was pretty strong willed and my brother was charismatic and I was scared of everything. I was pretty even Steven. The three of us. My oldest brother passed away before we came to Michigan. So there was only three of us in the house. He was a baby when he passed away. My mother is a strong woman, she's been through a lot of things.
  • [00:32:08] JOETTA MIAL: Yes. And she's still here.
  • [00:32:12] CAROL ALLEN: And she's still here. That's why I know there's a God because we've been through everything. The whole world has being through crisis and she's still here.
  • [00:32:27] JANIE LEE ROSS: My mother?
  • [00:32:28] CAROL ALLEN: No, you you've been through all kinds of stuff and you're still here.
  • [00:32:34] JANIE LEE ROSS: I'm still here.
  • [00:32:37] CAROL ALLEN: The year my mother was born is when they had the first pandemic or close to it. In 1921, and she's been through two.
  • [00:32:47] JOETTA MIAL: That was what?
  • [00:32:51] CAROL ALLEN: It was after first pandemic they had? It was either in '21 or '22, round that time she was born. She's been through another pandemic with the COVID. She's still here and she never caught either one of them. And, when was this? Three months ago, her heart stopped completely and she got over that they put a pacemaker.
  • [00:33:19] JOETTA MIAL: My goodness, tell me what did you do for fun, you and your family? What was some of your favorite thing, that you and your family like to do?
  • [00:33:34] CAROL ALLEN: What did you like to do?
  • [00:33:35] JANIE LEE ROSS: I liked to bake pies.
  • [00:33:37] CAROL ALLEN: Like to.
  • [00:33:39] JANIE LEE ROSS: I liked cooking pies.
  • [00:33:43] CAROL ALLEN: What else did you like to do?
  • [00:33:44] JANIE LEE ROSS: Making any kind of pie you can name. I loved to do that.
  • [00:33:50] CAROL ALLEN: You know what else they would do, Joetta, that I remember? When we'd go to Alton when I was a little girl and a grown woman, they would have french fries.
  • [00:34:01] JANIE LEE ROSS: And another thing I liked to do is make salad. I loved to make salad.
  • [00:34:08] CAROL ALLEN: She didn't cook.
  • [00:34:09] JANIE LEE ROSS: Because we had a lot of tomatoes and usually loved to make salad.
  • [00:34:15] CAROL ALLEN: The thing that my mother did too is garden. I still can't garden like she does. She had flowers everywhere and she had vegetables when she lived on Lois Court in Ann Arbor behind Mack School. I didn't get that skill, I don't know how to do it. I didn't take the time. Mom did a lot of things, Dad did too. They were hungry when they came here. I think a lot of people that had a lifestyle they had when they were growing up. When they came to towns like Ann Arbor, they were hungry. So they did everything they could to survive and they did. Because they had it hard, them being here was nothing like there. Mom don't remember a lot of stuff. When I talk about it, it comes back to her.
  • [00:35:10] JOETTA MIAL: We talked about your being a custodian in the schools, but there was some nurse training before that. How did you get started? What got you interested in the job that you were doing?
  • [00:35:36] CAROL ALLEN: Your brother was working in the hospital, you remember uncle Benny.
  • [00:35:40] JANIE LEE ROSS: But I guess I was in my early twenties.
  • [00:35:57] CAROL ALLEN: My uncle worked in the hospital there. I think that's how she got interested.
  • [00:36:02] JOETTA MIAL: That's how she got interested in that.
  • [00:36:04] CAROL ALLEN: To the hospital environment. And she worked here as a nurse's aid. I remember that when we first moved on Fifth Ave, she worked at St. Joe's for a while as a nurse's aid.
  • [00:36:16] JOETTA MIAL: Really? What do you value most about what you did for a living?
  • [00:36:29] JANIE LEE ROSS: I guess I was about thirteen.
  • [00:36:33] CAROL ALLEN: I think my mother valued the kids. I have people tell me stories about how mama used to give them lunch money when she worked at the schools. She would help the kids at Clague and the different junior highs.
  • [00:36:47] JANIE LEE ROSS: When I started working.
  • [00:36:49] CAROL ALLEN: She would help the kids out. I had one man tell me she let him drive her Lincoln to the store and back. He was at Bethel.
  • [00:36:57] JOETTA MIAL: Wow.
  • [00:36:59] CAROL ALLEN: She loved children and they loved her. Some of them still ask about her and they're as old as I am.
  • [00:37:07] JOETTA MIAL: Oh my goodness.
  • [00:37:08] CAROL ALLEN: I didn't realize how great it was to have good people working in schools until, a couple of weeks ago the reverend preached. I know my son had some good teachers, and you were one of them. You were there when he was there. It makes a difference if they have somebody to go to. Mom would, the guy said he would go get lunch money from her. My brother-in-law got lunch money, now he's got his doctorate degree.
  • [00:37:38] JOETTA MIAL: Wow.
  • [00:37:40] CAROL ALLEN: She was good to the children, she don't remember but they tell me the stories.
  • [00:37:50] JOETTA MIAL: How did your life change when you and/or your husband retired and all of your children left home?
  • [00:38:00] JANIE LEE ROSS: I did my life [INAUDIBLE] with my husband.
  • [00:38:06] CAROL ALLEN: When you retired, you and dad, and you didn't have any kids around.
  • [00:38:09] JANIE LEE ROSS: They left?
  • [00:38:11] CAROL ALLEN: It was good better wasn't it? When we left and you get the house just for you?
  • [00:38:19] JANIE LEE ROSS: I'd say so.
  • [00:38:21] CAROL ALLEN: You think so? Mom was good, dad was good. They were good parents, they loved us. They would feed us and have this spread and they were glad when we came in. Glad when we left I think.
  • [00:38:38] JANIE LEE ROSS: He liked to whoop the kids, anyway. I didn't like that. It didn't fit my book.
  • [00:38:48] CAROL ALLEN: Daddy wasn't bad.
  • [00:38:50] JANIE LEE ROSS: He wasn't bad but he whooped them kids.
  • [00:38:53] CAROL ALLEN: Maybe they deserved it.
  • [00:38:55] JANIE LEE ROSS: I don't know why he whooped them so. But he didn't let them whimper. If he says, sit down, you better sit. Or go to bed, you better go to bed. That's the kind of daddy he was.
  • [00:39:10] CAROL ALLEN: But you know what? I was more afraid of you than I ever was of dad.
  • [00:39:18] JANIE LEE ROSS: He told me.
  • [00:39:20] CAROL ALLEN: You didn't play mama.
  • [00:39:23] JANIE LEE ROSS: I couldn't stand it.
  • [00:39:25] CAROL ALLEN: But you love the boys and he loved the girls. [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:39:32] CAROL ALLEN: Daddy never did much to us girls. You didn't want us to do anything to the boys, so we had it made pretty good, Joetta.
  • [00:39:43] JOETTA MIAL: Sounds like it.
  • [00:39:45] CAROL ALLEN: They were very good parents, I think that's what made me survive a whole lot of stuff.
  • [00:39:52] JANIE LEE ROSS: Them boys was so rough.
  • [00:39:52] CAROL ALLEN: Well he was trying keep it-- [OVERLAPPING]
  • [00:39:57] JOETTA MIAL: Did you and your husband have more time to yourself while the children had gotten out of the house? Did you do anything any differently?
  • [00:40:12] CAROL ALLEN: Once we were out of home?
  • [00:40:18] JANIE LEE ROSS: I guess I did most everything in a different way.
  • [00:40:23] CAROL ALLEN: They were pretty family oriented, my parents. I tell you what I miss, my mom and I used to do. She taught me how to cook. When I got married, I couldn't cook a hamburger. I would call them from the other side of town and they would tell me what to do. And she taught me how to shop. I used to go for Thanksgiving dinner with her and my great neice. Mom taught us a lot. People don't realize the time she spent with people is more valuable than anything. Plus, it teaches them who they are. I would never sass Jane Ross, because she was a straight shooter. When she tells you something it was for your own good. I loved it. She taught me a lot, she taught me how to survive.
  • [00:41:30] JOETTA MIAL: That's a good thing. When thinking back on your working life, can you remember any social or historical events that were taking place at the time? Did they personally affect you like the Civil Rights Movement or some other things in history that happened during your adult life?
  • [00:42:03] CAROL ALLEN: Did they affect your life, mom?
  • [00:42:07] JANIE LEE ROSS: I don't remember.
  • [00:42:11] CAROL ALLEN: It did because when we first came here, they didn't have people working in hospitals as nurse's aides or nurses. I had some cousins come here, the only jobs they could get was housekeepers in people's homes, maids. The Civil Rights did change that. It made more jobs open up to people. It made more jobs open up to my dad. My dad worked for the city for years and he did all kinds of jobs. He worked in the sewer department. There's an article in the paper about, must have been in the '70s or '80s when he was working in the sewer and it caved in on him. He worked worked at the Tower Hotel. He was a head chef there, but they've worked hard. But when my cousins first came here, they only could get jobs--I remember this so clearly, on Washtenaw, I can go by there but I can't find the house anymore--the only jobs they could get was maids working in people's homes. Did you see the story about the maids that were walking, I can't think of the name of the store. That's the kind of jobs that were here in the early '50s and the Civil Rights did change that. It made jobs available to Black people that they couldn't get before. Mom don't remember. But mom worked in Whitmore Lake. Do you remember when you worked for that lady in Whitmore Lake, cleaning her house?
  • [00:43:54] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:43:54] CAROL ALLEN: And you took us out there and we went with you? Yeah. My parents, they worked hard.
  • [00:44:01] JOETTA MIAL: Worked hard.
  • [00:44:04] CAROL ALLEN: They rented the houses, the rooms to people and there's so many families lived with us on Fifth Ave, I can't name them all. It was good and bad. It was good because people got to know each other, it was bad because they didn't have places to stay. They didn't have all the condos like out here at Colonial Square and then on the north side of Ann Arbor, they didn't have places for people to live. A lot of people rented rooms. I can't think of any eating places. Oh, I can think of one. Nobody knows about this, I don't know why I remember. Right across from where the Mongolian is, it used to be Kresge's, was a jewelry store called Daniel's. Then in the basement they had beauticians and Black barbers and Black beauticians. That's where we went to get our hair done when I first came here, I was a little girl. Must have been the early '50s.
  • [00:45:08] JOETTA MIAL: Where is that again?
  • [00:45:10] CAROL ALLEN: Right across the street from the Mongolian, it used to be Kresge's. In the basement were the beauty shops and barber shops for Black people when we first came here. That's the only place I knew about it. They didn't have the one on Fourth Ave or Detroit Street there yet.
  • [00:45:34] JOETTA MIAL: What years were that?
  • [00:45:37] CAROL ALLEN: Could have been in the early '50s, like '51, '52, '53, like that. I didn't realize I'd been here this long. [LAUGHTER] I was a little girl. Ann Arbor was so much smaller. I guess when we came here was probably 20-30,000 people. It's probably doubled at now or tripled. So it makes a difference.
  • [00:46:11] JOETTA MIAL: Mrs. Ross, can you tell me how it's been for you to live in Ann Arbor?
  • [00:46:18] JANIE LEE ROSS: How what?
  • [00:46:18] CAROL ALLEN: How life was living in Ann Arbor for you?
  • [00:46:27] JANIE LEE ROSS: Nice and and all that.
  • [00:46:29] CAROL ALLEN: How it was. How was it?
  • [00:46:31] JANIE LEE ROSS: I liked it pretty well.
  • [00:46:35] CAROL ALLEN: My parents had two homes. They had all the cars they wanted to have and all the clothes and food. Compared to where they came from, it was good. They had a good life. They were hungry and they made it.
  • [00:46:52] JANIE LEE ROSS: What'd she say?
  • [00:46:57] CAROL ALLEN: She wants to know how life was compared to being in the country, living in Ann Arbor. Was it better living here than living in Tennessee?
  • [00:47:09] JANIE LEE ROSS: I guess so.
  • [00:47:11] CAROL ALLEN: She says she guess so. [LAUGHTER]. Wake up, baby. [LAUGHTER] I love you so much.
  • [00:47:22] JOETTA MIAL: Mrs. Ross, thinking back over your entire life, what are you most proud of?
  • [00:47:30] JANIE LEE ROSS: What am I most what?
  • [00:47:32] CAROL ALLEN: Proud of.
  • [00:47:33] JOETTA MIAL: Proud of.
  • [00:47:34] JANIE LEE ROSS: Proud of. I liked to play, usually hopscotch.
  • [00:47:45] CAROL ALLEN: She wants to know if you look over your whole life, what are you most proud of now that you're 100?
  • [00:47:52] JANIE LEE ROSS: What I'm most proud of now that I'm 100?
  • [00:47:56] CAROL ALLEN: Yes. What are you most proud of in your life? Your children, your grandchildren?
  • [00:48:06] JANIE LEE ROSS: I'm very proud of my grandchildren.
  • [00:48:10] CAROL ALLEN: Yeah, God has been good to us. Her grandchildren, she said. And her great grands.
  • [00:48:22] JANIE LEE ROSS: My great grands.
  • [00:48:23] CAROL ALLEN: And her great great grands.
  • [00:48:26] JANIE LEE ROSS: Great great grands.
  • [00:48:28] JOETTA MIAL: I bet they all love you. What would you say has changed the most from the time you were a young person to now?
  • [00:48:45] CAROL ALLEN: What's changed the most. I don't know why my picture's up here now. Oh, it's at the top. What's changed mama from the time you were young to now?
  • [00:48:59] JANIE LEE ROSS: What's changed?
  • [00:49:00] CAROL ALLEN: What in life has changed from you being young to now.
  • [00:49:05] JANIE LEE ROSS: Oh, what in life was changed?
  • [00:49:08] CAROL ALLEN: Yeah, how has it changed?
  • [00:49:09] JANIE LEE ROSS: It hasn't changed that much.
  • [00:49:14] CAROL ALLEN: It hasn't?
  • [00:49:16] JANIE LEE ROSS: No.
  • [00:49:17] CAROL ALLEN: See, I told you she was tough. The thing about my mother that I love the most, Joetta, and she can explain it to you, is that mom has certain values. Even though she's old, she still can defend herself, she still can communicate, and she still can let you know who's in charge. That's the beauty of Janie.
  • [00:49:44] JOETTA MIAL: Wonderful. Well, with all your years and experience and surviving, what advice would you give to young people today?
  • [00:50:00] JANIE LEE ROSS: What advice to what?
  • [00:50:03] CAROL ALLEN: Would you give to young people so they can live to be as old as you? [LAUGHTER] What would you tell them? You know what you always tell me? You put your trust in God. That's what she tells me, Joetta. She tells me that all the time. She has more peace than I do.
  • [00:50:35] JOETTA MIAL: So you would tell young people to trust in the Lord?
  • [00:50:39] JANIE LEE ROSS: Yeah.
  • [00:50:43] JOETTA MIAL: Well, we have come to the end of this. I want to thank you so much and you too, Carol, for helping out.
  • [00:50:52] CAROL ALLEN: It's good to see you.
  • [00:50:54] JOETTA MIAL: Good to see you and wonderful to see your mother who will be 102.
  • [00:51:04] CAROL ALLEN: 102.
  • [00:51:05] JOETTA MIAL: Thank you so very much. It's been my pleasure.
  • [00:51:11] JANIE LEE ROSS: Thank you.
  • [00:51:13] CAROL ALLEN: Thank you.