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Legacies Project Oral History: Mary Martin

When: 2020

Mary Dyson Martin was born in 1914 in Dallas, Texas. Her grandmother had been enslaved in Tennessee, and she grew up conscious of that legacy. Martin graduated from Fisk University and got her masters in library science at the University of Illinois. She taught swimming lessons for the YWCA Girl Reserves during the summers. She was a high school librarian in Gary, Indiana and Detroit, Michigan for over thirty years. Her husband was a doctor and a World War II veteran. They were married for 47 years and had two children.

Mary Martin was interviewed in partnership with the Museum of African American History of Detroit and Y Arts Detroit in 2010 as part of the Legacies Project.

Transcript

  • [00:00:09.60] SPEAKER 2: Kate Nelson. You can stop it and just let this early--
  • [00:00:20.42] SPEAKER 1: This part?
  • [00:00:21.08] SPEAKER 2: Yeah.
  • [00:00:22.50] SPEAKER 1: This interview is for the Legacies Project for which students gather oral histories and put them into an archive for future generations. And this is just for you, so you can be aware, to the best of your ability, ignore the camera, please.
  • [00:00:41.79] Your eyes can wander, but mostly look at me. And please do not look at the camera. Each videotape is--
  • [00:00:49.60] SPEAKER 3: 60.
  • [00:00:50.24] SPEAKER 1: --60 minutes long. If you are in the middle of answering the question and we need to change the tape, I will ask you to hold your thought while we change the tape. And we'll pick up where we left off on the new tape.
  • [00:01:05.59] It's time to have all cell phone, pagers, or anything that beeps, chimes, or makes noises. You can call for a break any time you want to. Well what? Also remember that you can decline any question, to answer any question or end the interview at any time for any reason. All right.
  • [00:01:33.39] I want to ask you some simple demographic questions to begin with.
  • [00:01:36.62] MARY MARTIN: All right. All right.
  • [00:01:37.28] SPEAKER 1: These questions may jog memories, but please keep your answers brief and to the point for now. We can award you to later in the interview. Please say and spell your name.
  • [00:01:49.55] MARY MARTIN: My name is Mary Martin, M-A-R-Y M-A-R-T-I-N.
  • [00:01:56.48] SPEAKER 1: What is your birthday, including the year?
  • [00:01:58.97] MARY MARTIN: What is my best date?
  • [00:02:00.29] SPEAKER 1: Birthday.
  • [00:02:01.16] MARY MARTIN: Oh, August 28, 1914. That's during World War I, isn't wasn't II, was it? World War II.
  • [00:02:10.65] SPEAKER 2: I.
  • [00:02:11.05] MARY MARTIN: World War I. OK.
  • [00:02:12.77] SPEAKER 1: How would you describe your ethnic background?
  • [00:02:15.47] MARY MARTIN: My what?
  • [00:02:15.92] SPEAKER 1: Your ethnic background. How would you describe it?
  • [00:02:17.91] MARY MARTIN: Oh, I-- well, I was born in Dallas, Texas and had a sister who's younger, five years younger, and a brother, who is two years older. And we grew up in Dallas, Texas until we all went away to college.
  • [00:02:38.63] And Texas was a very segregated state. So they said, we will let you Black people go anywhere you want to go for education. But we are sorry, but we just can't accept you in our school. We don't-- they didn't have mixed interracial school.
  • [00:02:59.45] So I chose to be a librarian. And I went to the University of Illinois.
  • [00:03:06.13] SPEAKER 2: Excuse me.
  • [00:03:06.53] MARY MARTIN: And they paid all of that.
  • [00:03:07.85] SPEAKER 2: We're going to get to that later. We're just right now asking your ethnic background.
  • [00:03:11.10] MARY MARTIN: Oh, you want it about my family?
  • [00:03:12.52] SPEAKER 2: Yeah. Yeah. Ethnic background.
  • [00:03:14.09] MARY MARTIN: Oh, I had-- my mother was a graduate of Fisk University. And she grew up in Nashville, Tennessee. And that's how she got to go to Fisk. And her father was a slave master. Her mother worked for the slave master and had her by the slave master.
  • [00:03:36.08] And he set her to college because he felt that she was a smart little girl. And then after she graduated from college-- she went to Fisk University in Nashville. And my father was a dental student at a medical college in Nashville.
  • [00:03:54.74] So she met him and they married. And he took her to Texas. And that's where I grew up. And I enjoyed living in Texas until I got grown. And I was happy to leave the segregated area and come north to Detroit.
  • [00:04:11.48] SPEAKER 1: What is your religion, if you have one?
  • [00:04:13.98] MARY MARTIN: My relationship?
  • [00:04:14.54] SPEAKER 1: Your religion.
  • [00:04:16.19] MARY MARTIN: To religion?
  • [00:04:17.80] SPEAKER 1: What is your religion?
  • [00:04:19.53] MARY MARTIN: I'm a Congregationalist. I go to Plymouth United Congregational Church.
  • [00:04:26.95] SPEAKER 1: What is the highest level of formal education you have completed?
  • [00:04:31.48] MARY MARTIN: Well, I have been-- I went to college four years in Nashville, Tennessee, an all-black college, called Fisk University. And, as I said, after that, Texas paid me to go anywhere I wanted to go in the United States. By that time, I had decided I wanted to be a librarian. I didn't want to teach school.
  • [00:04:51.49] So they paid all of my expenses to go to Urbana, Illinois, except spending change. They bought my books. They paid my railroad fare. We weren't flying back then, the olden days. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:05:03.24] And so I rode the train to Urbana, Illinois. I lived there for a year and took the library science. And after I left there, I had a friend who lived in Gary, Indiana, and she said, we need a librarian at our high school. Would you be interested in it?
  • [00:05:20.89] So I went to Gary. They interviewed me. I had just graduated. I was full of information, and knowledge, and young, so I guess I impressed them. So they hired me on the spot.
  • [00:05:34.73] So that September, I went to Gary and I stayed there six years until I got married.
  • [00:05:41.17] SPEAKER 1: What is your marital status?
  • [00:05:44.35] MARY MARTIN: What?
  • [00:05:44.60] SPEAKER 1: What is your marital status?
  • [00:05:46.42] MARY MARTIN: I am a widow right now. I was married 47 years to a wonderful man who practiced medicine for a long time. And we had two children, a girl and a boy. And they both live in Detroit. And my daughter just retired as a librarian at the new school called the School of Fine Performing Arts, which is in downtown Detroit.
  • [00:06:14.49] SPEAKER 1: How many siblings do you have?
  • [00:06:16.59] MARY MARTIN: Who's what?
  • [00:06:17.37] SPEAKER 1: How many siblings do you have?
  • [00:06:18.84] MARY MARTIN: How many siblings? It's two, a girl and a boy. Is that what you mean?
  • [00:06:23.56] SPEAKER 1: Like your brothers and sisters.
  • [00:06:25.18] MARY MARTIN: Oh, sisters. I have one sister. And she was a school teacher. And I have one brother. He was a medical doctor. He's dead. They're both dead though. I'm the middle child.
  • [00:06:39.04] I have one grandson. I have one son and one daughter. And my grandson just finished Saginaw Valley State University. And he lives in Saginaw.
  • [00:06:52.09] SPEAKER 1: What was your primary occupation?
  • [00:06:55.67] MARY MARTIN: Well, I guess I was always a librarian.
  • [00:07:00.38] SPEAKER 1: At what age did you retire?
  • [00:07:03.11] MARY MARTIN: [LAUGHS] I haven't worked for 25 years. So, at present, I am 60-- I mean. 95 years old. And in the month of August, the 28, I will be 96 years old.
  • [00:07:17.65] And I'm in good health. I don't walk with a cane. My mind is pretty good. And I enjoy life. And so I went to work when I guess I was 21.
  • [00:07:32.54] SPEAKER 2: And so it's 70 when you returned? You said you've been retired for 25 years?
  • [00:07:36.40] MARY MARTIN: Oh, yeah. I retired a long time ago. I don't know exactly the year. But my husband died and I don't know.
  • [00:07:44.75] SPEAKER 2: OK.
  • [00:07:45.19] MARY MARTIN: It's been so long ago. He died in '98 or something.
  • [00:07:51.00] SPEAKER 1: OK. Now we can begin with the first part of our interview.
  • [00:07:55.90] MARY MARTIN: All right.
  • [00:07:56.53] SPEAKER 1: And it goes with, like, your family background or history. We will start the family name and history. And by this, we mean any story about your last part of your family name or family traditions in your choosing first or middle names? Do you have any stories about your family name?
  • [00:08:17.67] MARY MARTIN: No. My family name was Dyson, D-Y-S-O-N. My father was a dentist. And both my parents were a mixed generation. They both had white fathers and black mothers. So he was a very fat man with straight hair. So was my mother.
  • [00:08:44.32] SPEAKER 1: Are there any naming traditions in your family? Are there any naming traditions in your family?
  • [00:08:49.46] MARY MARTIN: No. No.
  • [00:08:51.56] SPEAKER 1: OK. Now we're just going to start the family migration part of this segment. Why did your ancestors leave to come to the United States?
  • [00:09:02.50] MARY MARTIN: What is my what?
  • [00:09:03.52] SPEAKER 2: Why did your ancestors leave to come to the United States?
  • [00:09:07.78] MARY MARTIN: What did my ancestors need to come to the United States?
  • [00:09:10.87] SPEAKER 1: Why did your ancestors leave to come to the United States?
  • [00:09:14.62] MARY MARTIN: Oh, well, I don't know too much about my ancestors, really. But as I say, just what my parents told me. But my mother's father was white. And he educated her. He sent her to college. And that was his gift to her. And she never looked back. And I never met him. I don't know nothing about him. But he was good to her.
  • [00:09:39.84] SPEAKER 1: Do you know any stories about how your family first came to the United States?
  • [00:09:45.54] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [00:09:46.16] SPEAKER 1: Do you know where they settled?
  • [00:09:48.01] MARY MARTIN: Any-- any what?
  • [00:09:49.87] SPEAKER 1: Any stories.
  • [00:09:51.19] MARY MARTIN: About the--
  • [00:09:52.51] SPEAKER 1: About how your family first came--
  • [00:09:53.95] MARY MARTIN: My family first came to the United States? No. My mother was born in the 1800s. They met her back in 1800s, I guess. 1903, they got married. And so I don't know. They just are always born here. Now my father was born in Mississippi. And my mother was born in Tennessee. That's all I know.
  • [00:10:22.35] SPEAKER 1: Do you know how we made a living in the United States? Do you know how they made their living in the United States?
  • [00:10:29.35] MARY MARTIN: My mother was a social worker. And my mother finished college. Like I said, he sent her to college. And my father was a dental student. And he practiced dentistry in Dallas, Texas until he died.
  • [00:10:55.46] SPEAKER 1: Can you describe any early migration once they arrived in the United States? And how they came to live in this area?
  • [00:11:03.29] MARY MARTIN: No, I can't. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:11:05.45] SPEAKER 1: OK. Do you know what belongings that they brought with them?
  • [00:11:09.63] MARY MARTIN: What belongings they brought with them when they came to the United States? But they were both born in the United States, my parents. So I don't know about belonging. They didn't have anybody that I know of. That I know of, no.
  • [00:11:27.69] SPEAKER 1: OK. To your knowledge, did they try to preserve any traditions or customs from their country of origin?
  • [00:11:34.47] MARY MARTIN: Well, you keep saying "their country." the United States was their country, so they were both born in the United States.
  • [00:11:42.20] SPEAKER 1: Do they have any traditions that they've passed down to you that you passed down to your children, like-- for like-- I would say, that was anything-- Like, you never went through and kept on doing something every year?
  • [00:11:54.80] MARY MARTIN: No, no.
  • [00:11:58.12] SPEAKER 1: All right. What stories have come down to you about your parents and grandparents, and more distant ancestors?
  • [00:12:07.77] MARY MARTIN: My ancestors?
  • [00:12:09.32] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [00:12:10.03] MARY MARTIN: Well, as I said, [LAUGHS] I don't know how to say this, but my grandmother was a slave. And she had my mother by the slave master in Tennessee.
  • [00:12:23.22] And my father's people I didn't know very much about. He was older than my mother. And I didn't know his family or anything about them.
  • [00:12:33.21] But my mother's mother lived with us when I was a little girl. And she took care of us. And she did the cooking. And I was cleaning, and the washing. And so we taught her to read and write. And the most thing that she read was the Bible. She'd sit on the front porch and read the Bible out loud to herself.
  • [00:12:53.40] And she could read part of the newspaper. But when I was a little girl, she could not read nor write. And she was, as I remember her, she died around age 75, which I thought was an old, old lady. But now, I don't think 75 is old at all. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:13:14.73] SPEAKER 1: Do you know any courtship stories?
  • [00:13:17.99] MARY MARTIN: Any what?
  • [00:13:19.32] SPEAKER 1: How your parents met?
  • [00:13:21.13] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [00:13:22.51] SPEAKER 1: OK. This summer camp at the YMCA has made possible in part by a grant from a foundation that is interested in people's relationships to natural bodies of water, such as oceans, lakes, rivers, and streams. So throughout our interview, I will be asking you some questions about how you have interacted with water in the stage of your life.
  • [00:13:55.17] Since right now we are talking about your family history, I will ask you about what you know about how any of your family or ancestors related to the water? Did your parents, or anyone in your family history, make a living working on the water?
  • [00:14:17.85] MARY MARTIN: No, no.
  • [00:14:20.77] SPEAKER 1: Did anyone in your family history like to do activities involving the water?
  • [00:14:26.11] MARY MARTIN: Not that I know of.
  • [00:14:27.98] SPEAKER 1: Like swimming? Did anyone in your family have stories about the water that were handed down to you?
  • [00:14:35.08] MARY MARTIN: About water? No, nothing about water, unless you're talking about swimming. I learned to swim when I was eight years old. And I taught swimming for four years when I was in college. And that's some water.
  • [00:14:46.00] SPEAKER 2: OK. We're going to get to that later.
  • [00:14:48.29] MARY MARTIN: All right.
  • [00:14:49.20] SPEAKER 1: This part is about your childhood up until you began attending school. If any of these questions jog your memories about other times your life, please only respond with memories from this earliest part of your life.
  • [00:15:03.13] Where did you grow up and what are your strongest memories of that place?
  • [00:15:08.14] MARY MARTIN: Where did I grow up? In Dallas, Texas. And I live them until I was 21, I guess. And then I left there and I worked for six years. And then I got married and I came to Detroit.
  • [00:15:24.56] SPEAKER 1: Do you have any strongest memories from when you was living in Dallas?
  • [00:15:28.36] MARY MARTIN: Well, yes. I had a good time. And my memories of living in Dallas? I lived in a very segregated town. Dallas was a southern city. And blacks at that time were considered second class citizens. And they treated us that way. And, of course, we had to accept the way they treated us.
  • [00:15:53.92] But, basically, there was some good ones who treated us very well. And so growing up as a child was very interesting. I had a good life. And I was happy to leave Texas. But I can go back there now because it's a lovely city.
  • [00:16:10.84] SPEAKER 1: How did your family come to live there?
  • [00:16:13.25] MARY MARTIN: How much did it cost to live there?
  • [00:16:14.69] SPEAKER 1: How did your family come to live there, in Dallas?
  • [00:16:17.27] MARY MARTIN: Well, I said my father took dentistry at this college in Nashville, called Meharry Medical College. And then he decided to go south to make a living because there were a lot of-- the population was great there. Dallas was the second largest city in Texas. And Texas is one of the biggest states in the union.
  • [00:16:38.30] So he thought that was where he would like to work. And so of course my mother followed him to Texas. And she taught at school. And then she went into social work. She did social work.
  • [00:16:50.72] And my father died as a dentist. And we lived very comfortably.
  • [00:16:58.42] SPEAKER 1: What was your house like?
  • [00:16:59.99] MARY MARTIN: My house? Well, I lived in a frame house on a very nice street in Dallas. And it was a residential area. And all the neighbors knew one another. And they watched us as children, helped us grow up. And if we misbehaved, they would tell our parents.
  • [00:17:18.45] And so if we misbehaved sometimes, we would get a little spanking. But the streets were nice and clean. And the schools were all segregated schools, but lovely schools. So I think I got a good education. And I had some nice friends in Texas.
  • [00:17:38.61] SPEAKER 1: How many people lived in the house in with you when you were growing up? And what was their relationship to you?
  • [00:17:45.12] MARY MARTIN: Well, when I was growing up, it was just five of us living in the house-- my mother and father, and my grandmother was three-- well, six. And I had a brother and a sister. And my brother was two years old. I'm the middle child.
  • [00:18:01.46] And, as we grew up, we had one less. And my brother went and took medicine. And he went to Nashville, just for college. And my sister went to college. And I left her there because I was the middle child. She was the last to leave.
  • [00:18:19.17] But we had five-- what did I say? Three children, and five of us lived in the house. Frame house, on about a 50-foot lot, I guess.
  • [00:18:30.61] SPEAKER 1: OK. Did you ever sit outside with your brothers and sisters and play games?
  • [00:18:38.80] MARY MARTIN: Oh, yeah. We did that a lot.
  • [00:18:41.62] SPEAKER 1: Like what did you play? And did the neighborhood kids join in with you guys and your games?
  • [00:18:47.39] MARY MARTIN: Oh, what did we do? What?
  • [00:18:49.17] SPEAKER 1: What games did you guys play and did the neighborhood kids join in that?
  • [00:18:51.80] MARY MARTIN: Oh, we played baseball and we used to play hopscotch, and I don't know. [LAUGHS] All the games that little children play. And I can't remember that far back. I'm nearly 100 years old. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:19:08.93] SPEAKER 1: OK. Were different languages spoken in different settings, such as at home, in the neighborhood, or at local stores?
  • [00:19:17.59] MARY MARTIN: Yeah. I don't know.
  • [00:19:19.95] SPEAKER 1: OK. What was family like when you were a child?
  • [00:19:25.79] MARY MARTIN: Well, I had a very small family, as I said. I had a mother and a father, a sister and a brother. And we had a normal life. And we went to church. We went to school. And we belonged to the Y and we went swimming.
  • [00:19:41.99] I used to teach swimming when I was a young lady every summer. And I enjoyed the association with the children that I grew up with. And they were mostly educated people.
  • [00:20:01.76] SPEAKER 1: You said your father was a dentist and your mom was a school teacher?
  • [00:20:05.04] MARY MARTIN: She was a social worker. Yeah. And a school teacher, yeah.
  • [00:20:08.18] SPEAKER 1: Did your father do your general dentistry for you?
  • [00:20:12.41] MARY MARTIN: Did he do what?
  • [00:20:13.63] SPEAKER 1: Was he your dentist?
  • [00:20:15.38] MARY MARTIN: No, I didn't-- [LAUGHS] I had to wear braces when I was a little girl. And so there were no black doctors that did braces. So I had to go to the white doctors to let them know who they were. But I wore braces when I was a little girl. But he never pulled any teeth for me that I can remember.
  • [00:20:35.43] SPEAKER 1: OK. What is your earliest memory?
  • [00:20:40.31] MARY MARTIN: My earliest memory of living at the South?
  • [00:20:45.47] SPEAKER 1: Before you started school in the south, yeah.
  • [00:20:50.73] MARY MARTIN: I don't know my earliest memories. Can you-- can you--
  • [00:20:54.75] SPEAKER 2: Just whatever your earliest memory is that comes to mind.
  • [00:20:57.45] MARY MARTIN: Wait a minute. My earliest memories of living in Texas?
  • [00:21:00.88] SPEAKER 2: Anything. Your earliest memory in your life.
  • [00:21:02.72] MARY MARTIN: Oh, when I was a little girl? Let's see. I belonged to-- I was a-- they used to have a little club called the "Girl Reserves." I don't know if they have that now or not, but they are a lot of the city girls. And I always learned to do things with my hands, paint, and skate, and ride bicycles, and cook, and do things like that. I had a very nice life.
  • [00:21:37.50] SPEAKER 1: What was a typical day for you in your pre-school years? When you went to pre-school, what was your typical day?
  • [00:21:44.67] MARY MARTIN: My typical day? You mean in preschool? What'd you say about-- did you mention pre-school?
  • [00:21:51.37] SPEAKER 1: Mhm.
  • [00:21:53.72] MARY MARTIN: I don't know. I can't remember that far back.
  • [00:21:56.00] SPEAKER 1: Or you could just give me a typical-- like what was your typical day when you were at home with your family in Dallas?
  • [00:22:02.52] MARY MARTIN: Well, we'd go to school, of course, all day. And then we'd play all the evening until it got dark and then come in. And we had to study. And we went to church on Sunday. And we had activities in different places where our parents was-- we were watched and controlled and we weren't just thrown out in the public life. I always had a private life. I had a good life.
  • [00:22:33.82] SPEAKER 1: Do you remember what you did for fun?
  • [00:22:36.60] MARY MARTIN: Like I said, we played baseball. And we'd skate and ride bicycles, and the things that the young children do.
  • [00:22:44.07] SPEAKER 1: Did you have a favorite toy, or game, or book that you had when you was younger?
  • [00:22:49.38] MARY MARTIN: A favorite story?
  • [00:22:50.83] SPEAKER 1: Like, a toy, a game, or book, or a story, yeah.
  • [00:22:57.20] MARY MARTIN: I can't remember the early stories really. Let me see. I know we read about about Cinderella. But my mother used to read to us. And then we read by ourselves, but I can't remember that far back if I had a favorite story.
  • [00:23:17.81] SPEAKER 2: You need to ask about toys.
  • [00:23:20.83] SPEAKER 1: Did you have a favorite toy?
  • [00:23:22.31] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [00:23:23.42] SPEAKER 1: OK. Or a game?
  • [00:23:26.05] MARY MARTIN: No. Well, I liked to-- well, I guess, games, see what are the games? I like to work-- I liked to work, when I grew up, I liked to work crossword puzzles. I just worked them all the time. I still do. They help your mind. And it's just fun. I like to do crossword puzzles.
  • [00:23:51.20] SPEAKER 1: OK. You said you was doing a girl's society with the YMCA?
  • [00:23:58.39] MARY MARTIN: Well, I belonged to the Girl Reserves. That was a little club of all girls. And we would go swimming. I used to teach swimming now. Did I mention that? I was a swimming teacher when I was in college. And I made a little money doing that for the YWCA. And my mother was chairman of the YWCA.
  • [00:24:19.53] And they built a-- when I was little girl, we would have a little frame building. But as I grew older, they had the big building. And it was more modern. And they had their own swimming pool and everything. So it was very lovely.
  • [00:24:32.09] SPEAKER 1: When you was in the Girl Reserves, what was your activity to do with them?
  • [00:24:35.71] MARY MARTIN: Well, the same thing that all little children do. They played ball, and they'd run, and race, and things like that. But you asking me to remember when I was a child. That's many years ago. Can you remember what you did when you were six years old? OK. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:24:55.13] SPEAKER 1: Were there any special days, or events, or family traditions you can remember from your early childhood years?
  • [00:25:01.11] MARY MARTIN: I don't know. I can't remember.
  • [00:25:03.72] SPEAKER 1: OK. OK. So now I'm going to ask you about your relationship with natural bodies of water during your earliest childhood memories. What is your earliest memory of either seeing a body of water, like an ocean, like a river where you could see it, or you walked by it?
  • [00:25:27.08] MARY MARTIN: Water?
  • [00:25:28.11] SPEAKER 1: Like a body of water.
  • [00:25:31.48] MARY MARTIN: You said what was my earliest experience with water?
  • [00:25:34.60] SPEAKER 1: Seeing, like, if you haven't seen a body of water like the ocean or a river?
  • [00:25:39.04] MARY MARTIN: Well, far as I know, Dallas didn't have any big bodies of water. There was the Gulf of Mexico. But I didn't live on-- Dallas was an inland city. And we didn't have any large areas of water surrounding us, just a little rivers, and little ponds, and lakes.
  • [00:25:58.39] But, as I said, I love the water. Because every time we could, we could be getting in the water and go swimming. So the water was always attractive to us as children.
  • [00:26:12.06] SPEAKER 1: OK. Do you associate any feelings from water from this time in your life?
  • [00:26:21.30] MARY MARTIN: No. No. I hardly can remember way back then. I don't know. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:26:31.70] SPEAKER 1: In this part of the interview, we will talk about your time as a young person from the age kids usually start school in the United States, until you began your professional career or work life. Did you go to preschool?
  • [00:26:49.10] MARY MARTIN: Did I go to pre-school?
  • [00:26:50.33] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [00:26:52.46] MARY MARTIN: I don't know. I might have gone to kindergarten, private kindergarten, before I went to the public school. I'm sure I did for a while.
  • [00:27:02.69] SPEAKER 1: OK. Did you go to elementary school?
  • [00:27:06.19] MARY MARTIN: Yeah. I went to elementary school.
  • [00:27:07.76] SPEAKER 2: Do you remember where?
  • [00:27:09.38] MARY MARTIN: Mm mm.
  • [00:27:10.26] SPEAKER 1: OK.
  • [00:27:10.70] MARY MARTIN: [LAUGHS] No. In Dallas, Texas, where I lived, all the schools were segregated, as I'd said. And they were all-- we had second-- we used secondhand books, secondhand chairs, secondhand desks.
  • [00:27:26.42] And, as I grew older, finally the high school I went to was built and we have everything new and fine. But when I was little, everything we got was hand-me-downs. And we didn't expect-- we just didn't-- we had to accept what they gave us.
  • [00:27:41.99] That was life in Texas. Now, not all the United States. But that's the way it was in Texas.
  • [00:27:49.55] SPEAKER 1: If you did not go to any school that was-- that has-- do you know why you did not and what you did?
  • [00:27:58.41] MARY MARTIN: No, I don't know.
  • [00:27:59.96] SPEAKER 1: OK. Did you go to school or career training beyond high school?
  • [00:28:05.61] MARY MARTIN: Yes, I did. I went to graduate school. But, as I said, Texas paid for my education to graduate school. I went to Fisk University, which is an all black university. A very fine school. I learned how to be a lady, and how to act like a lady.
  • [00:28:25.32] And they taught us all the social graces. And we had all black, you know, a non-segregated school, all black schools. And then, as I grew older, I decided I wanted to be a librarian. I did not want to teach.
  • [00:28:42.07] So I chose to go to the University of Illinois in Champaign, Indiana, Illinois. So the state of Texas paid for that. They said, we don't want you to come here with us. But we'll pay you to go anywhere you want to go. So we took them up on it.
  • [00:29:00.24] And most of my friends and those that wanted to went on to college. And we left Texas and never went back. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:29:13.28] SPEAKER 1: And did you play any sports or join any other activities outside--
  • [00:29:17.04] MARY MARTIN: Well, I played tennis. I loved to play tennis when I was a young lady. And, of course, we played baseball, and things like that, and played ball.
  • [00:29:30.13] SPEAKER 1: Were you were in a sorority?
  • [00:29:32.34] MARY MARTIN: Was I was what?
  • [00:29:33.03] SPEAKER 1: Were you in a sorority in school?
  • [00:29:34.44] MARY MARTIN: Yes, I was in a sorority called Alpha Kappa Alpha, which is an all women's sorority. And it's a national group. And I think it was started in 1906 and it's still going today, although I don't belong to it now. But I belong to another group, which is a selected group of women, called "The Girlfriends."
  • [00:29:57.48] And we meet once a year. And we have women from all over the United States who belong. And we get together and have a wonderful time. We do fun things. We do intellectual things. And we get to see our friends once a year.
  • [00:30:16.57] SPEAKER 1: What about your school experiences? Is it different from the school as we youth know it today?
  • [00:30:23.05] MARY MARTIN: My school?
  • [00:30:24.04] SPEAKER 1: Yeah. Like, is it different from the schools today?
  • [00:30:30.62] MARY MARTIN: What you mean? The schools that I went to, compared to the schools today?
  • [00:30:34.39] SPEAKER 1: Mhm.
  • [00:30:35.55] MARY MARTIN: Oh, lord. [LAUGHS] I can't answer that really. I think they're better now than they were when I came along. I think you have more opportunity and more things to work with. You know, every year, time goes on. And life, when you get my age, you will have many things to do that you aren't doing now. Life gets better every year, you know?
  • [00:31:05.51] SPEAKER 1: Can you describe the popular music during your school years?
  • [00:31:09.41] MARY MARTIN: The popular what?
  • [00:31:10.37] SPEAKER 1: The music during your school years?
  • [00:31:12.17] MARY MARTIN: Oh, no, no. I can't remember that one. Don't ask me for nothing back that far. [LAUGHS] I told you, I'm 95 years old. I can't remember my school years. [LAUGHS] I'm blessed to be living.
  • [00:31:30.57] SPEAKER 1: Can tell like if you can remember the hairstyles and how they dressed?
  • [00:31:35.93] MARY MARTIN: Well, we used to wear our hair in braids and two little plaits hanging down the back. And I remember my mother used to curl my hair when I go to a birthday party or something. But we had the electric curlers. And then we'd have a hot curler that you heated with heat. And the girls wore curls. And I had my share of that.
  • [00:32:04.69] SPEAKER 1: Can you describe any other fads or styles from the time era?
  • [00:32:11.62] MARY MARTIN: My childhood?
  • [00:32:13.15] SPEAKER 1: Like it could be your childhood or your school life, where it would lead up to your work life. Like any other styles or fads that you were interested in?
  • [00:32:21.62] MARY MARTIN: No. I can't think of anything like that. No.
  • [00:32:24.84] SPEAKER 1: Were there any slang terms, phrases, or words used then that aren't commonly used in today's vocabulary?
  • [00:32:35.66] MARY MARTIN: I don't know. No.
  • [00:32:39.49] SPEAKER 1: What was a typical day like for you in this time period?
  • [00:32:45.56] MARY MARTIN: Where was it? I didn't get that question.
  • [00:32:47.69] SPEAKER 1: What was a typical day like for you--
  • [00:32:50.25] MARY MARTIN: What a typical day was like?
  • [00:32:52.15] SPEAKER 1: --in this time period? Like, we're gonna get to your work but we're gonna stay focused on your childhood, just like high school and the beginning of college, and then post-secondary school.
  • [00:33:03.87] MARY MARTIN: Yeah. Well, as a little girl, I started off in kindergarten, like most little girls do. And then I went to a Catholic school for about a year. And then I went to-- in Dallas, as I said, we had segregated schools.
  • [00:33:19.49] So we went to segregated schools. And we had all black teachers. And if you misbehaved, and you go to church on Sunday, they would tell your parents. And your parents would give you a spanking.
  • [00:33:32.83] So you tried to act like a lady as best you could in schools because the teachers all knew your parents. And so that was my life as a little girl. We went to school. And we behaved ourselves. [LAUGHS] Because you don't want to disgrace your family.
  • [00:33:59.29] SPEAKER 1: Were there any special things, or events, or traditions that your family did with you?
  • [00:34:07.99] MARY MARTIN: Special things?
  • [00:34:08.89] SPEAKER 1: Like, events, like with your sorority or with all your high school friends, the things you do, like, go to the movies, or things like that?
  • [00:34:19.81] MARY MARTIN: No. Listen, I can't remember that far back. I have to skip that question.
  • [00:34:27.92] SPEAKER 1: Did your family have any special sayings or expressions they used to say then?
  • [00:34:32.89] MARY MARTIN: Any special things?
  • [00:34:35.11] SPEAKER 1: Things they would say or phrases they would use towards--
  • [00:34:38.10] MARY MARTIN: No, they didn't. No.
  • [00:34:41.00] SPEAKER 1: Were there changes in your family during your school years? Like, did your family change in any way?
  • [00:34:48.94] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [00:34:51.89] SPEAKER 1: OK. Were there any special days or events-- oh, you said you wanted to skip that question.
  • [00:35:00.00] MARY MARTIN: OK.
  • [00:35:02.39] SPEAKER 1: Which holidays did your family celebrate?
  • [00:35:06.33] MARY MARTIN: Well, they celebrated our birthdays. So each child would have a birthday party. And we'd have ice cream cake and the usual things that people still do today. And we'd celebrate when someone graduated from school, or they got married, or things like that.
  • [00:35:34.11] SPEAKER 1: Did you have any special food traditions that your family had and was passed down to you?
  • [00:35:41.20] MARY MARTIN: [LAUGHS] No.
  • [00:35:46.43] SPEAKER 2: Hey, ask about holidays.
  • [00:35:48.88] SPEAKER 1: I did.
  • [00:35:50.35] SPEAKER 2: Yeah, just restate it. If they had birthdays--
  • [00:35:56.52] SPEAKER 1: Other than birthdays, did you celebrate Christmas and all the other holidays?
  • [00:36:01.50] MARY MARTIN: Yes, we did. Everybody celebrated Christmas. Yeah. Because we believed in Santa Claus, and birthday parties, and took presents, and we played games, and all the things that the little kids do now.
  • [00:36:14.09] And I had a very wonderful life. And I think when you have a good life, it shows in your later life, that you can handle things that come up that might need some attention. But you can't get back to my childhood. I'm not too good at that. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:36:40.91] SPEAKER 1: When thinking back on your school years, what important social or historical events were taking place at the time and how did they personally affect you and your family?
  • [00:36:52.15] MARY MARTIN: Oh, when I was-- what historical events took place?
  • [00:36:56.14] SPEAKER 1: Mhm.
  • [00:36:58.10] MARY MARTIN: Well, I grew up-- I've seen a lot of historical history made, good and bad, since I was a little girl. I can't really pick out any one right now. But we had a lot of things we did celebrate.
  • [00:37:24.97] SPEAKER 1: Now we're back to the water questions for the YMCA content of this part of the interview. Did your family engage activities involving water when you were younger, when you was a child or younger?
  • [00:37:39.41] MARY MARTIN: I can't answer that.
  • [00:37:43.82] SPEAKER 1: You said you were swimming during your school years, is that correct?
  • [00:37:47.36] MARY MARTIN: I graduated from Fisk?
  • [00:37:49.11] SPEAKER 1: No, you said you were swimming in your school years at young grades. You said you were swimming at the YMCA?
  • [00:37:54.98] MARY MARTIN: Yeah. That's right.
  • [00:37:56.53] SPEAKER 1: OK. Did you had any feelings associated with water in this time in your life?
  • [00:38:03.91] MARY MARTIN: Water? Other than swimming, and jumping in the lakes, and doing-- I guess that's all I know about water. As I said, I taught swimming for years. I had all of that.
  • [00:38:21.90] SPEAKER 1: What lakes did you jump into?
  • [00:38:24.61] MARY MARTIN: [LAUGHS] I didn't have any lakes. Because we were in Dallas. We didn't have any lakes. We didn't have any water, not much water around Dallas. They have a few old rivers and things. But it's more or less not a water-- now, Houston is on the Gulf of Mexico. But Dallas was more of an inland city where I grew up.
  • [00:38:48.70] SPEAKER 1: Did you go to Houston?
  • [00:38:50.27] MARY MARTIN: Huh?
  • [00:38:50.68] SPEAKER 1: Did you ever visit Houston?
  • [00:38:52.41] MARY MARTIN: Yes, I visited Houston. Yeah. It was one of the largest cities in Texas, Houston, uh huh.
  • [00:38:57.99] SPEAKER 1: What did you do when you visit there?
  • [00:39:00.81] MARY MARTIN: Well, you would just go sightseeing, I guess, and look at all the new development in the city. Texas was such a big city that we hardly left Dallas because we could get everything we wanted right there in Dallas. So we didn't have to go to all those other places.
  • [00:39:25.44] SPEAKER 1: Did you see the Gulf Mexico?
  • [00:39:27.19] MARY MARTIN: Yes, yes. I've seen the Gulf. I've swum in the Gulf of Mexico.
  • [00:39:31.39] SPEAKER 1: Was it fun?
  • [00:39:33.19] MARY MARTIN: Yes. Yeah, it was. Yes.
  • [00:39:35.45] SPEAKER 1: OK.
  • [00:39:36.24] MARY MARTIN: But like I say, Dallas was more of an inland city. And we weren't on any water or lakes. So as a little girl I didn't. But as I grew older, as I said, I have been in lakes and things like that. Not now, of course.
  • [00:39:51.04] SPEAKER 1: Have you ever went camping?
  • [00:39:52.96] MARY MARTIN: And I what?
  • [00:39:53.43] SPEAKER 1: Have you ever been camping?
  • [00:39:55.46] MARY MARTIN: Am I what?
  • [00:39:56.06] SPEAKER 1: Have you ever been camping?
  • [00:39:57.63] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [00:40:03.28] SPEAKER 1: OK.
  • [00:40:05.18] MARY MARTIN: You've got some-- all these questions.
  • [00:40:07.62] SPEAKER 2: We've give a lot more.
  • [00:40:08.09] SPEAKER 1: We've got questions.
  • [00:40:09.51] SPEAKER 2: Yeah. We've got a lot of questions.
  • [00:40:10.95] MARY MARTIN: All right.
  • [00:40:11.39] SPEAKER 1: All right. This set of questions is about your adulthood, marriage, and family life. So it covers a fairly long period in your life from the time you completed your education into the labor force, or started a family, until all your children left home, and you or your spouse retired from work.
  • [00:40:33.38] So you might be talking about a stretch of time spanning as much as four decades. To begin with, I will have to ask you questions about your residence, community, after you left-- after you finished high school or post-secondary school. Where did you live?
  • [00:40:52.04] MARY MARTIN: Well, I said I lived in Dallas until I was 16 years old. And I went away to Nashville, Tennessee to college for four years. And I'd go home every summer and work and teach swimming.
  • [00:41:05.50] And then Texas paid for my education because we had segregated schools. So I went to the University of Illinois for a year and took library of science. And then I got a job in Gary, Indiana, which was not in the south. It was near Chicago.
  • [00:41:23.47] And that was a very interesting town, an industrial town where they had lots of steel mills. And we have a long school day. We worked-- the children stayed in school till 4 because most of the parents worked in the steel mills. And they didn't get out of school until the parents didn't get out. They work till 4 in the evening, afternoon.
  • [00:41:43.57] So they had the schools a little bit longer. And we had a longer lunch period because the parents didn't want the children to go home without them being present. So we had a long school day, but a long lunch hour. And that's all I can say about that.
  • [00:42:02.79] SPEAKER 1: OK. Did you remain there? And did you move after with it? Did you stay there for a couple of years? Did you move?
  • [00:42:10.35] MARY MARTIN: What do you mean, did I stay in Texas?
  • [00:42:13.99] SPEAKER 2: Gary.
  • [00:42:15.40] SPEAKER 1: Gary, Indiana.
  • [00:42:16.83] MARY MARTIN: Wait a minute. Say that again.
  • [00:42:17.92] SPEAKER 1: Did you stay in Indiana or did you move in--
  • [00:42:19.98] MARY MARTIN: Oh, I stayed in Indiana until I got married. I worked there six years. And I stayed there until I got married. I'd go back and forth to Chicago on weekends. And I had lots of friends over there, and lots of things to do in Chicago.
  • [00:42:35.35] And I loved working in Gary, Indiana. And then, after I left there, I got married on my sixth year. And my husband was in the Veterans Hospital in Tuskegee, Alabama in the war time. And so I didn't live with him in the first six months of my marriage.
  • [00:42:57.38] But in June, I gave up my job in Gary and moved to Tuskegee with him. And I worked at the University of Tuskegee. That's the one you've heard of that Booker T. Washington started. And it's still going. But I worked in that college.
  • [00:43:15.37] And after my husband finished his stint with the army, he had heard about Detroit and the-- we had two black hospitals here. So he came here to do a residency in medicine.
  • [00:43:30.13] And he practiced medicine here until he died. He died at age 64. And I've been a widow for over 20 years. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:43:43.30] SPEAKER 1: What was it like when you were dating your husband?
  • [00:43:47.50] MARY MARTIN: What was it like?
  • [00:43:48.41] SPEAKER 1: Yeah. When you had dates with your husband.
  • [00:43:50.72] MARY MARTIN: [LAUGHS] Well, I don't know whether it was any different than other life. It's just a wonderful marriage. We had a girl and a boy. It takes a good woman to have one of each. And I never failed to tell him that. [LAUGHS]
  • [00:44:04.38] I said, I gave you one of each. So he was a wonderful husband. He had some wonderful family. And he left me in very good financial shape. And so right now I don't have a worry in the world.
  • [00:44:20.50] SPEAKER 2: I'm not sure she heard your question correctly. You might want to just repeat that succinctly.
  • [00:44:28.21] SPEAKER 1: OK. Before you married him, like when you first met, after you first met, I would assume you started dating. Like, did a couple of dates. If you can, can you tell me what it was like? I mean, what kind of dates that you went on.
  • [00:44:44.08] MARY MARTIN: Oh, you want to know something about him. Well, how I met him, he finished Morehouse-- have you ever heard of Morehouse College? He finished Morehouse College in Atlanta. And when he graduated, he graduated the same year I finished Fisk. And I didn't know him at that time.
  • [00:45:01.80] So, Atlanta picked six or seven young men who had finished college and sent them to Texas to write insurance for a life insurance company. So each city that they went-- they went to the biggest cities in Texas, like Houston, and Dallas, and Fort Worth, and on like that.
  • [00:45:23.22] So he stayed in Dallas about a week. And, at that time, the black people couldn't stay in the hotels. So we had to find places for these seven young men to stay.
  • [00:45:35.37] So one of the stayed with-- we let one of them stay at my house because my brother was away at the time. And so, naturally, we would see these young men every evening. And we got to know them very well.
  • [00:45:49.05] And he and I developed a friendship. And then he went to med school for four years. And then he went to the army. So I knew him eight and nine years before we married. And I had a wonderful marriage, a wonderful man. And that's the way we lived.
  • [00:46:15.90] SPEAKER 1: If you feel comfortable, can you tell me about your children?
  • [00:46:19.55] MARY MARTIN: My children?
  • [00:46:20.29] SPEAKER 1: Mhm.
  • [00:46:20.89] MARY MARTIN: Well, I had a little girl, and a little boy. My girl is oldest, and she's three years older than my son. And that's the last thing he said to me when he died. He died. He said, you gave me a girl and a boy. He said, not every girl can do that.
  • [00:46:38.41] And he was very happy to have the two children. And we took a lot of time with them. And they're both living here in Detroit now. My daughter just retired. She's a librarian also. I encouraged her to take library science.
  • [00:46:57.00] And my son works in a project with a bunch of-- working with young men and women in a anti-drug program. And so he's been doing that for a year. And they are doing fine. I have one grandson. He's 24. He just finished college, Saginaw State University.
  • [00:47:24.47] SPEAKER 1: I'm sorry. I have to go back one. Can you tell me about your engagement?
  • [00:47:29.61] MARY MARTIN: Engagement? [LAUGHS]
  • [00:47:31.47] SPEAKER 1: Was it long?
  • [00:47:32.77] MARY MARTIN: No, it wasn't too long. Let's see, when I decide to get married to this young man, he was in the army. And I was working in Gary. And so at the end of the year that I got engaged to him, I worked from September to June.
  • [00:47:53.06] And then I resigned and moved to Tuskegee. And I worked at Tuskegee Institute in the library. And he was there. And he worked at the hospital. So we had dinner every Sunday at the hospital and I didn't have to cook. And I could eat for $0.50 back then, 1940, during the war time.
  • [00:48:14.49] And the soldiers-- he was a soldier. He was a Captain in the army. And then he got to be a Major before he finished. But, anyway, he could eat for $0.35. I had to pay $0.50. So I never cooked.
  • [00:48:25.79] We roomed with a lady. And we stayed there about four or five months. And then we came to Detroit. And, ever since, I've been here. Happy marriage.
  • [00:48:39.15] SPEAKER 1: Could you tell me, did he propose to you? Like, how he proposed to you?
  • [00:48:42.73] MARY MARTIN: Well, I can't remember that. We were married 47 years. So I can't remember 47 years or 50 years. He just asked me to wait for him because he wasn't able to get married.
  • [00:48:58.32] SPEAKER 1: OK. You said you had a wonderful wedding?
  • [00:49:03.60] MARY MARTIN: Yes.
  • [00:49:04.41] SPEAKER 1: How was it? Like, the ceremony, did you have a pastor? How was it? Was it in a church or was it outside? If you remember?
  • [00:49:13.83] MARY MARTIN: I had a-- did I have a wedding? Is that you saying that?
  • [00:49:16.95] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [00:49:17.74] MARY MARTIN: Yes, I had a wedding. And I wore my mother's wedding dress. And it was a cotton dress with lots of tucks, and down to the floor. And he was in uniform when we got married. And then he spent-- we spent-- we spent two nights together. And then he was off to the army.
  • [00:49:39.78] And he left. And I didn't see him anymore until Thanksgiving or Christmas. We married in September. And I went on back to work. And he went to Tuskegee, to the army. And then, after six months in Tuskegee, we moved to Detroit. And I've been here with him ever since. A wonderful marriage.
  • [00:50:02.94] SPEAKER 2: Stop there. It's 3:30, so--
  • [00:50:06.97] SPEAKER 1: Thank you.
  • [00:50:07.92] MARY MARTIN: All right.
  • [00:50:08.32] SPEAKER 1: We'll resume another day. Tomorrow, I think. We'll resume tomorrow. The rest of the questions from this section.
  • [00:50:14.67] MARY MARTIN: All right, OK.
  • [00:50:16.06] What did you say? You asked me a question?
  • [00:50:17.92] SPEAKER 1: Yes. What war was your husband in?
  • [00:50:21.40] MARY MARTIN: What role?
  • [00:50:22.27] SPEAKER 1: War.
  • [00:50:23.14] MARY MARTIN: World War II.
  • [00:50:24.07] SPEAKER 1: World War II.
  • [00:50:25.96] MARY MARTIN: Mm-hmm.
  • [00:50:30.23] SPEAKER 1: Could you tell me about your working years?
  • [00:50:32.60] MARY MARTIN: My work years?
  • [00:50:33.67] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [00:50:34.59] MARY MARTIN: Well, let's see. I was a high school librarian most of my life. And I grew up in Texas. But I got my education at the University of Illinois, in Urbana. And I worked in Gary, Indiana until I married. And then I stopped working. And I raised my family. But I've been a high school librarian most of my life.
  • [00:51:02.39] And I worked here in Detroit, at the Cast School. And I used to work at a school and they had-- the kids-- Commerce, High School of Commerce. Did you ever hear that? they don't have it anymore. Did you ever hear of the High School of Commerce? Well, it was an old school, right across from Cast.
  • [00:51:20.84] We just walked right out, the back of Cast, across the street on a bridge, and we were in the High School of Commerce. And then after I got my children-- I substituted. I went to all-- many, many schools. But I haven't worked in 20 years, now, you know. But I just had to-- a high school librarian is my work.
  • [00:51:42.47] SPEAKER 1: OK. What was a typical day like during the working years of your adult life?
  • [00:51:47.93] MARY MARTIN: A typical day of the work life was getting up early and going to school. And well, the school-- I worked most of my time in Gary, Indiana. And Gary, Indiana is a little city near Chicago, where they have a lot of steel mills.
  • [00:52:07.55] And the people worked from 9 to 4. So the people who live in Gary said that they preferred the children to stay in school til 4 instead of 3. So school will started a little later. And the lunch hour was a little longer. But the kids did not get out til 4, so they could meet their parents and not have to be alone. So most of my workload was in high school, with high school students.
  • [00:52:34.97] SPEAKER 1: What did your family enjoy doing together when your kids were still at home?
  • [00:52:39.42] MARY MARTIN: Who did I leave them with?
  • [00:52:41.02] SPEAKER 1: No, what did your family enjoy doing together--
  • [00:52:43.79] MARY MARTIN: Oh.
  • [00:52:44.09] SPEAKER 1: --when your kids were still at home?
  • [00:52:45.37] MARY MARTIN: When the kids were home, well, I used to teach swimming. And we'd go swimming every summer. And just swim all day. And we'd go to the movies. And I guess that's what we enjoyed most.
  • [00:52:58.59] SPEAKER 1: What were your personal favorite things to do for fun?
  • [00:53:03.17] MARY MARTIN: My personal family?
  • [00:53:04.64] SPEAKER 1: What were your personal favorite things to do for fun?
  • [00:53:07.13] MARY MARTIN: Oh, I don't know. I don't have any personal favorite.
  • [00:53:13.60] SPEAKER 1: Are there any special days, events, or family traditions you participated different from your childhood traditions?
  • [00:53:22.63] MARY MARTIN: No, I don't know of anything that I participated in.
  • [00:53:29.50] SPEAKER 1: OK, this is about pop culture in your adult years. Please describe the popular music of your adult lifetime.
  • [00:53:36.87] MARY MARTIN: The popular music, what kind of music they had. Let me see. Popular music, well, I don't know. I don't know what popular music is. You know, well, we listened to all types of music in school and around. And I played the piano, and I took music lessons. But I had no particular type of music that I enjoyed, other than maybe the Negro spirituals. You know, so, music them was just an experience, I guess.
  • [00:54:12.72] SPEAKER 1: Did the music have any particular dances associated with it?
  • [00:54:17.18] MARY MARTIN: Now, I can't hear that.
  • [00:54:18.66] SPEAKER 1: Did the music have any particular dances associated with it?
  • [00:54:22.62] MARY MARTIN: Not that I know of.
  • [00:54:26.62] SPEAKER 1: What were the popular clothing or hairstyles of this time?
  • [00:54:32.30] MARY MARTIN: Popular hairstyles. Well, I used to wear my hair in a short bob, because I swam all the time and I didn't want to have to re-curl it. But I don't know, I guess people just wore little bangs and short haircuts. That's all I can think of.
  • [00:54:50.14] SPEAKER 1: And popular clothing?
  • [00:54:51.78] MARY MARTIN: Clothing?
  • [00:54:52.47] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [00:54:53.90] MARY MARTIN: Well, let's see. Well, I don't think when I came along pants were popular. Women didn't wear pants, I know that, to any degree. Some people might have had them. But now, women wear pants to church everywhere. But when I was growing up, I never wore-- we wore little dresses, and little jumpsuits, and things. But now, pants are in. They wear pants everywhere. But we didn't have a lot of pants wearing back then. We just wore little dresses. And they were short.
  • [00:55:30.08] SPEAKER 1: Can you describe any other fads or styles from this era?
  • [00:55:35.66] MARY MARTIN: Oh, let's see, any other fads. Let me see, I'm trying to think what was popular when I was little. Well, as I said, we wore little short skirts, and blouses, and I can't think of anything that's particularly outstanding.
  • [00:55:54.77] SPEAKER 1: Were there any slang terms, phrases, or words used then that aren't in the common use today?
  • [00:56:01.91] MARY MARTIN: No, no.
  • [00:56:06.44] SPEAKER 1: When thinking back or your work adult life, what important social or historical events were taking place at that time? And how did they personally affect you and your family?
  • [00:56:18.11] MARY MARTIN: Well, as I said, when I was a little girl, I was born in the south, where it was segregated. And blacks had to get in the back. And we had to ride in the back of the bus, and to do this and the other. But as time went on, we complained about making us second class citizens.
  • [00:56:35.55] So then we got so we didn't have things we're not separated in the south anymore. They didn't have seats for black. And now, you can get on the bus in the south and ride today the same way the white folks ride. But when I was a kid, we were always segregated. The blacks were here and the whites were here. But now, it's more integrated. And I think it makes a richer life.
  • [00:57:03.85] SPEAKER 1: Now I want to ask you questions about your relationship with natural bodies of water during your working years. Did your family engage in activities involving water during your working years?
  • [00:57:15.70] MARY MARTIN: Activities of a war?
  • [00:57:18.28] SPEAKER 1: No, activities with water during your working years.
  • [00:57:24.19] MARY MARTIN: No, they weren't. No.
  • [00:57:26.15] SPEAKER 1: Did you engage in activities involving water during your work years?
  • [00:57:30.55] MARY MARTIN: Other than swimming, that's the one thing I did. Because see, where I lived, there wasn't a lot of water. Dallas, Texas is not on a river, it's not on a lake, it's not on the ocean. So most my life was lived inland. So I didn't have that much contact with being on the water, unless you go fishing.
  • [00:57:51.99] SPEAKER 1: Do you associate any feelings with water from this time in your life?
  • [00:57:56.56] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [00:58:00.59] SPEAKER 1: This set of questions covers a fairly long period of your life, from the time you entered the labor force and started a family, up to present time. What was your may field of employment?
  • [00:58:13.79] MARY MARTIN: I said I taught school. And that's it. And then I taught swimming every summer.
  • [00:58:20.21] SPEAKER 1: How did you first get started with this tradition, skill, or job?
  • [00:58:25.11] MARY MARTIN: How did I start?
  • [00:58:26.40] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [00:58:27.35] MARY MARTIN: Well, you know, when you go to school, you need something to do in the summer to make a little money. So my job was to teach swimming for the YWCA, the women, young children. And I'd go to camp and things like that.
  • [00:58:42.08] SPEAKER 1: What got you interested in teaching swimming?
  • [00:58:45.62] MARY MARTIN: Well, I have a love for water. And I wanted my children to learn. And they learned, other children learned. And I had a lot of experience teaching swimming. And I swim to this day.
  • [00:58:58.22] SPEAKER 1: Can you describe the steps of the process involved in your job, from start to finish, what raw materials were used, where did you get your materials, supplies, or ingredients.
  • [00:59:11.06] MARY MARTIN: Well, I just worked for the city. The schools furnish all-- and I told you I worked for the YWCA. And they furnished all the materials that you needed, things like that. They have a program. We just followed their program.
  • [00:59:24.65] SPEAKER 1: What was a typical day like during the working years of your adult life?
  • [00:59:29.27] MARY MARTIN: Well, let's see, a typical day, I guess, is no different than what a typical day is today. You get up, and have your breakfast, and you go to work, and you come home. So I don't think that there were anything unusual about the day, the typical day. Just work, and come home, and rest.
  • [00:59:47.69] SPEAKER 1: What specific training or skills were needed for your job?
  • [00:59:52.75] MARY MARTIN: What skills?
  • [00:59:53.75] SPEAKER 1: Yes, what skills were needed for your job?
  • [00:59:55.34] MARY MARTIN: Well, you mean for the library job that I had? That's what you want to know, what skills were necessary?
  • [01:00:01.08] SPEAKER 1: Yes.
  • [01:00:02.18] MARY MARTIN: Well, I had to learn how to have children get interested in reading. And I had to advertise the books, and sell them, and see that the children read them, and enjoy them. And have exhibits up to keep them interested, what's in that book, and what's with this story about. And that was the way I was brought up. You have to just keep doing things that would keep the children interested in going to the library. That's an important part of like, reading, in my life.
  • [01:00:39.48] SPEAKER 1: What technology changes occur during your working years?
  • [01:00:43.28] MARY MARTIN: What year?
  • [01:00:44.63] SPEAKER 1: What technology changes occurred during your working years?
  • [01:00:49.28] MARY MARTIN: I don't know. I can't answer that.
  • [01:00:51.90] SPEAKER 1: Like, did they have computers then?
  • [01:00:54.97] MARY MARTIN: No, no.
  • [01:00:55.84] SPEAKER 1: Technology changes?
  • [01:00:57.89] MARY MARTIN: I don't even know how to use a computer not, because I didn't never use a computer as a student.
  • [01:01:04.91] SPEAKER 1: What is the biggest difference in your main field of employment from the time you started until now?
  • [01:01:11.33] MARY MARTIN: Well, as I said, I'm retired now. So I don't even think about working. All I do is enjoy life. But my lifestyle is just now rest, and relaxation, and enjoying life.
  • [01:01:26.30] SPEAKER 3: Excuse me. Before we move on to the next question, can I change the tapes?
  • [01:01:30.89] SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
  • [01:01:31.55] SPEAKER 3: Thank you.
  • [01:01:35.57] SPEAKER 4: --They've been doing all year with one of their clients, the census. So, I'm going to give the mic over to the kids so they can talk about their experience.
  • [01:01:44.45] [APPLAUSE]
  • [01:01:58.35] SPEAKER 1: What is the biggest difference in your main field of employment from the time you started until now?
  • [01:02:03.94] MARY MARTIN: The board of education, that was my main-- I was mostly employed by educators, the board of education.
  • [01:02:13.56] SPEAKER 1: How do you judge excellence within your field?
  • [01:02:18.39] MARY MARTIN: Well, it's hard to two judge excellence from just looking at people. You have to really work with them and get to know them. But it's hard to judge, but you can get an overall idea of what a person is like very quickly. But for a long period of time, you have to study them.
  • [01:02:40.59] SPEAKER 1: What makes someone respect you in the field that you were in?
  • [01:02:44.47] MARY MARTIN: I don't know. Nothing special.
  • [01:02:49.14] SPEAKER 1: What do you value most about what for a living and why?
  • [01:02:52.75] MARY MARTIN: What do I value most about what I did for a living? Well, as I said, I enjoy working with children. And so I got a joy out of seeing them grow, and learn to read books, and be smart.
  • [01:03:14.30] SPEAKER 1: What is the biggest difference in your main field of employment from the time you started until now?
  • [01:03:20.39] MARY MARTIN: Well, as I said, I'm retired now. And I think now the work that I'm doing-- did then, it's much more advanced now. You have computers, and you have much better-- like you have cameras and all of this material to work with that we didn't have when I was growing up. So I think that's what I can say.
  • [01:03:46.83] SPEAKER 1: This is about residency and community. Tell me about any moves you may during your working years and retirement, before your decision to move to your current residence.
  • [01:03:59.40] MARY MARTIN: Oh, boy. During my working years, I worked about 30 years or so. After you do work a long time, you want to retire. So you just stop and start enjoying life. That's all I know. And you do things that are enjoyable to you, like reading books, and traveling, and sightseeing, and things like that.
  • [01:04:32.24] SPEAKER 1: How did you come to live in your current residence?
  • [01:04:36.31] MARY MARTIN: How do I what?
  • [01:04:37.42] SPEAKER 1: How did you come to live in your current residence?
  • [01:04:39.43] MARY MARTIN: All right, my husband brought me to Detroit to live. And I came here with him. And he is now-- he died here. And I raised my children here. And they were all born here. And I just stayed here. And I like living in Detroit.
  • [01:04:56.65] SPEAKER 1: How do you feel about your current living situation?
  • [01:04:59.20] MARY MARTIN: I like my current-- I live in a high rise apartment downtown Detroit, called 1300 East Lafayette. I don't know if you ever know where-- do you where that is? 1300 East Lafayette. And I live in a three-bedroom apartment. And I look out the Detroit River. In fact, I could lay in my bed and see the ships go by at night. And then I can look out another window and see Canada and downtown Detroit. And so, I enjoy the atmosphere of downtown area.
  • [01:05:32.04] SPEAKER 1: How did family life change for you when you and/or your spouse retired and all the children left home?
  • [01:05:38.86] MARY MARTIN: All right, when I retired and all the children left home, I had a big house. And then, as I said, after the children left, my husband stayed in the house. And then he got sick and he died. And after he died, six months later, I sold that house and moved downtown. Because I didn't want to live alone in a big house. And my children were grown then. And they all had their own assignments and they were happy. So I'm happy the way I am.
  • [01:06:08.73] SPEAKER 1: How has your life changed since your spouse passed away?
  • [01:06:13.32] MARY MARTIN: It hadn't changed much. I do the same- what's changed mostly about my life, at my age most of my friends have died. I'm lucky to be living, to be past 90. Because the girl I roomed with in college is dead. And my best friend is dead. And the young men that I used to know, all of them are dead. So now, I'm running around with women-- the lady that I run around with most of the time is 77 years old.
  • [01:06:46.35] And I said how can you put up with a woman my age. She said, I enjoy your company. So I say, well, as long as you enjoy, you got my company. But life is what you make it, you know. I just love every phase of life now. I don't have to worry about finances, because when you get older, you get Social Security.
  • [01:07:11.37] And as I told this young man, it's very important to know how to spend money wisely. And when you get your hands on some, don't just waste it away, invested it. So $1 today can be invested, and tomorrow, it might be worth $1.50. And maybe 10 years later, it be worth $2. So most of my life has been very restful, because when I was really working, I saved my money and I invested it. And now I'm enjoying it.
  • [01:07:42.72] SPEAKER 1: What does your family--
  • [01:07:43.80] MARY MARTIN: So you got to invest your money, don't waste it.
  • [01:07:46.17] SPEAKER 1: What does your family enjoy doing together now?
  • [01:07:49.11] MARY MARTIN: Well, let's see, we just look at TV together. And my daughter lives with me. And she takes me around. We go sightseeing. And we go to the movies. And then in the summer, we swim, just enjoy life.
  • [01:08:08.77] SPEAKER 1: What are your personal favorite things to do for fun?
  • [01:08:12.24] MARY MARTIN: I like to play cards. Now I like to play Bridge. I don't know if you ladies know to play Bridge. I learned to play bridge. And I used to teach Bridge. And it's a lovely game to play. And then you can play Solitaire. I play that a lot when I'm home by myself. I just sit down and play Solitaire and look out the window. And I just enjoy life. And life now is very happy for me. I guess you can tell, can't you?
  • [01:08:35.90] SPEAKER 1: Yeah.
  • [01:08:36.92] MARY MARTIN: And I have my son. And I have a little grandson, who's 24. I gave him my car. I was driving a Cadillac and it was-- oh, I guess it was about seven years old. And so he drives it now. And he says all the girls want to ride with him. But I just enjoy life, period.
  • [01:08:58.89] SPEAKER 1: Are there any special days, events, or family traditions you especially enjoy at this time in your life?
  • [01:09:05.07] MARY MARTIN: No, no. Nothing special.
  • [01:09:09.93] SPEAKER 1: When thinking your life after retirement, or your kids left home, up to the present time, what important social or historical events were taking place? And how did this personality affect you and your family?
  • [01:09:23.76] MARY MARTIN: Oh, let's see, I don't know of anything in Detroit that has affected my life, because when I first came to Detroit, they had a race riot. You all were little children then. You may not even been born. Detroit had a race riot years ago. And I lived through that. And now, life is peaceful and quiet. And I just enjoy whatever is around me.
  • [01:09:52.10] SPEAKER 1: When thinking back or your entire life, why important social historical event had the greatest impact?
  • [01:09:59.61] MARY MARTIN: Oh, Lord, let's see. What historical event? Well, I guess the thing now, I could say, the most thing to me that's fantastic, to have a black president, a black man president in the United States. I never thought in my lifetime I'd ever live to see a black man as president. And I'm very proud of this young man. And I think he's wonderful. And I hope we have some others will follow.
  • [01:10:30.27] SPEAKER 1: What family heirlooms or keepsakes do you possess?
  • [01:10:34.55] MARY MARTIN: Oh, lord, I don't think I have any family heirlooms I'm old. I can't remember any heirloom. My parents have been dead a long time. But I don't I don't have anything that I can say that I have that value as being something very important. I don't.
  • [01:10:54.80] SPEAKER 1: Thinking back over your entire life, what are you most proud of?
  • [01:11:01.97] MARY MARTIN: I don't know. I'm most proud of the man I married. I had a happy marriage. He was a wonderful husband. And I miss him terribly. And I thank God for the opportunity to have lived with him for 47 years.
  • [01:11:16.00] SPEAKER 1: What would you say has changed most from the time you were-- wait-- what would you say has changed most from the time you were my age to now?
  • [01:11:29.26] MARY MARTIN: Well, life goes on. They have so many gadgets now to do things, that they you can use, that weren't in my lifetime. I can't name any specific ones. But life has changed so from 20 years ago. We have so many new gadgets to use, and videos, and things that we didn't have when I was coming along.
  • [01:11:58.30] You have a lot of things to help you learn, where you can see and learn as you look at it, as well as read about. But life has certainly changed. And when you get my age, there will be so many more. I don't see how they can top having a black president. How can you top that? So that's the thing that I admire most about my life, to be able to live long enough to see that happen.
  • [01:12:22.33] SPEAKER 1: What advice would you give to my generation?
  • [01:12:25.33] MARY MARTIN: What advice I said? Well, I think a good advice for young people is to start to plan early what you'd like to do, and work hard to pursue it, and to its best ability to do it. And save your money, invest it. But now, I read in the paper the other day, that you may have to be 70 years old before you get Social Security, in the 10 years.
  • [01:12:54.42] See now, you can be 62 and then you can get Social Security. And they pay you so much, according to the amount of money that you put into it as you worked. But I have lived to see Social Security come into my life. And used to have old age pensions. You heard of old age pensions? Well, that's when you worked and saved your money, and you get a pension. Now, Social Security is the main source of income for people to live on after they retire.
  • [01:13:29.20] SPEAKER 1: Is there anything you would like to add that I haven't asked about?
  • [01:13:34.30] MARY MARTIN: No, uh-huh. No, you've asked me a lot of questions.
  • [01:13:40.61] SPEAKER 1: Now I am going to ask questions about your relationship when natural bodies of water.
  • [01:13:45.76] MARY MARTIN: OK.
  • [01:13:46.26] SPEAKER 1: During your later working years and retirement.
  • [01:13:48.98] MARY MARTIN: All right.
  • [01:13:49.87] SPEAKER 1: Did your family engage in activities involving water during your later working years and retirement?
  • [01:13:56.98] MARY MARTIN: No, not too much.
  • [01:13:59.14] SPEAKER 1: Did you engage in activities involving water doing your later working years and retirement?
  • [01:14:04.99] MARY MARTIN: No, but where I live, we have a swimming pool. And I go swimming quite a bit. In fact, I'm going this afternoon for a while.
  • [01:14:14.71] SPEAKER 1: Do you associate any feelings with water from this time in your life?
  • [01:14:19.81] MARY MARTIN: No, I don't I any feeling for water, particularly.
  • [01:14:24.49] SPEAKER 1: Looking back over your entire life, what have bodies of water, such as oceans, lakes, or rivers meant to you?
  • [01:14:33.37] MARY MARTIN: Well, water means you can go boating, you can go swimming, and you can go fishing. So those are the only things I can think of the water really is necessary for.
  • [01:14:48.01] SPEAKER 1: How would you say your relationship to water has changed over the course of your life?
  • [01:14:53.70] MARY MARTIN: I don't think it's changed the course of my life. It has made life more enjoyable. But I can live just as good without water. But I don't think it's a necessity that you have to have water all the time, to be near a river, or lake, or ocean.
  • [01:15:12.82] SPEAKER 1: Well, this completes the last section of questions. Thank you.
  • [01:15:16.81] MARY MARTIN: All right.
  • [01:15:21.78] [INAUDIBLE]
  • [01:15:24.63] You all, at your age, you're going to see so many things develop that I'll never see in my lifetime. As I said to you before, the biggest thing in my lifetime that I've been able to see and enjoy is to have a black man president of the United States. Now how can you top that? Just name something that will top that.
  • [01:15:44.72] So maybe one day your children can-- maybe your children can, your family, can be in such a spotlight and invent something, and do something where you're recognized. And don't just waste your time. Have a life that's meaningful and rich.
  • [01:16:08.26] SPEAKER 5: Where were you when the race riots took place?
  • [01:16:10.97] MARY MARTIN: We'll, let's see, the race riots took place, I think, in 1942. Was that around the time-- 1942?
  • [01:16:17.56] SPEAKER 5: There were two, 1942 and--
  • [01:16:19.30] MARY MARTIN: And then '62?
  • [01:16:20.89] SPEAKER 5: '67.
  • [01:16:21.85] MARY MARTIN: '67. Now which one you want me to say, in 1967?
  • [01:16:26.47] SPEAKER 5: Yeah.
  • [01:16:27.01] MARY MARTIN: I don't know now, you'd have to subtract. I'm 95 now. Now, you figure out how old I was in '97. I'm 95 today. Feeling good.
  • [01:16:42.65] SPEAKER 5: So did you know anyone who was affected by the riots?
  • [01:16:45.17] MARY MARTIN: Huh?
  • [01:16:45.94] SPEAKER 5: Did you know anyone affected by the riots?
  • [01:16:47.71] MARY MARTIN: No, I don't. No, I certainly don't. Not physically nor financially, no. I saw-- I lived in the neighborhood where the riot was.
  • [01:16:58.78] SPEAKER 5: So you saw.
  • [01:17:00.31] MARY MARTIN: I saw people going, running from the-- undercover-- and taking the things home, and walking the streets, and running down the streets. But that was in 1967, I guess.
  • [01:17:11.59] SPEAKER 5: So were you or any of your family affected by the riots?
  • [01:17:14.08] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [01:17:14.47] SPEAKER 5: Did they come by your house?
  • [01:17:15.86] MARY MARTIN: No, we were not affected. I lived on LaSalle Boulevard. And it was a nice, quiet street. And just people were just running past and walking past with this stuff.
  • [01:17:30.89] SPEAKER 5: So they never actually like came to you or anything?
  • [01:17:35.29] MARY MARTIN: What?
  • [01:17:36.02] SPEAKER 5: So they never actually-- no police or anything came by your--
  • [01:17:40.79] MARY MARTIN: No. Well, the police were in the neighborhood, but not to my house.
  • [01:17:44.60] SPEAKER 5: OK.
  • [01:17:44.93] MARY MARTIN: Yes. Not to my house.
  • [01:17:48.05] SPEAKER 5: What did you witness happen during that race riots?
  • [01:17:50.96] MARY MARTIN: Well, there were fires in the neighborhood. And people running with their possessions. And that's all I can say. We left, got out of the house, and walked around.
  • [01:18:05.27] SPEAKER 5: It was five days, wasn't it?
  • [01:18:06.81] MARY MARTIN: What?
  • [01:18:07.55] SPEAKER 5: It was five days, right?
  • [01:18:09.59] MARY MARTIN: In the parks? No.
  • [01:18:11.06] SPEAKER 5: It lasted for five days.
  • [01:18:12.38] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [01:18:15.66] SPEAKER 5: So how do you think Detroit has changed from the race riots?
  • [01:18:20.16] MARY MARTIN: How has Detroit changed since the race riot? Well, that was 1967. '77, '87, '97, oh that's been many years ago. I think-- you know, most cities change for the best as the years go by. Many things are invented to help you live better. So I think the people have learned to take care of their property, and behave, and accept life as it is.
  • [01:18:58.13] SPEAKER 5: So during the days of the race riots, you just stayed at home.
  • [01:19:02.91] MARY MARTIN: You are whispering. Come on, a little louder.
  • [01:19:05.27] SPEAKER 5: During the race riots, were you just at home, or did you go on find safety?
  • [01:19:09.95] MARY MARTIN: We were at home during the race riot. And then we got on the porch and watched the people. All the people in the side streets, all came out, and went further away. They were protecting their dogs and animals. And so it was just a chaos, but not nothing tragic. Nobody was afraid of being killed or anything, no shooting. But just people moving around, just movement.
  • [01:19:38.63] SPEAKER 5: Did you participate in any of it?
  • [01:19:40.55] MARY MARTIN: No.
  • [01:19:46.01] SPEAKER 5: So how did that city look after the race riots? Were buildings burnt down near you?
  • [01:19:52.01] MARY MARTIN: You're talking so softly, I cannot hear you. Now say that again.
  • [01:19:55.91] SPEAKER 5: How did the city look after the riots?
  • [01:19:58.10] MARY MARTIN: After the riot?
  • [01:19:59.48] SPEAKER 5: Mm-hmm.
  • [01:20:01.46] MARY MARTIN: Well, I don't know that I saw much change directly after the riot, maybe in a matter of two, three, or four years. But I didn't see any particular change in the riot. Where I lived nothing was harmed. A few houses were burned. But the light came on as usual in the next week or so.
  • [01:20:29.61] SPEAKER 5: So what was your impression of the police and the National Guard during the riots?
  • [01:20:34.33] MARY MARTIN: What was the impression of the National Guard?
  • [01:20:36.63] SPEAKER 5: Yeah, how did you feel about them coming in?
  • [01:20:39.62] MARY MARTIN: Well, we were glad to have the National Guard come in, because they were-- they provided safety for the neighborhood. And there were a lot of National Guard people here in the city. And they patrolled the streets, day and night. And we were happy to have them.
  • [01:21:00.20] SPEAKER 5: Do you feel that any of Detroit is still affected by the riots, like people still haven't come back after they left?
  • [01:21:06.64] MARY MARTIN: No, I don't think anybody's affected to the point that they have left the city. I think life has been better since the riot for families and people.
  • [01:21:21.80] SPEAKER 5: Do you think that the riots were justified? Like people had a reason to riot?
  • [01:21:27.50] MARY MARTIN: Well, I guess they did. They were having problems with living conditions and the way they were treated. And so they just revolted. But after that, I think the city woke up to some of these evils, and things got better. And even today, much better than it was during that time, yes. I think we improved a lot since the riot.
  • [01:21:55.67] SPEAKER 5: OK, so what exactly do you remember? Can you describe the days of the riot, like what you saw on television?
  • [01:22:03.54] MARY MARTIN: I said all I saw was people running from their houses, or watching their houses, because the police were running, getting the people off the street and running down. And it was just a lot of activity. But there were some guns going off in certain areas, but not where I lived. So I didn't see anything that was tragic.
  • [01:22:29.00] SPEAKER 5: I'm going to ask you about President Obama.
  • [01:22:32.38] MARY MARTIN: Obama? All right.
  • [01:22:34.47] SPEAKER 5: So what was your first impression when you heard about Obama?
  • [01:22:38.58] MARY MARTIN: Well, when I looked at him, and his background, and all, I thought he was a fine young man to look at. I didn't know what his ability was or how he could mix with people. But he looked the part. And he looked like a fine young man. And we were delighted to have a black man represent us as the being the President of the United States.
  • [01:23:03.27] And I think as far as he's been there, he's done a beautiful job. His wife has done a beautiful job. And I think he's gotten along well with the different people that work in the government. And he certainly looks a lot-- A fine young man.
  • [01:23:20.61] SPEAKER 5: Did you vote?
  • [01:23:21.69] MARY MARTIN: Oh, yes, I voted for him, yes.
  • [01:23:25.67] SPEAKER 5: So did you ever think that there would be a black president?
  • [01:23:29.43] MARY MARTIN: No, I never thought in my lifetime. Now, that it has happened, I hope that some more will come up in the future and run. But I don't think we got another one in waiting yet that could compare with this young man. But I'd like to see another black president in time, not right away.
  • [01:23:52.35] SPEAKER 5: Why not right away?
  • [01:23:53.55] MARY MARTIN: Well, you know, you just don't have boom, boom, boom. It takes time. He's got to prove himself. And they've got to know how his contact was with the people in the United States, and the cities, and the states. And they would know better how to run the country after watching him and his wife and children live in the White House. Because after all, it's quite a transition for a black family to move in the White House when it's never been done before. That's all of my comments.
  • [01:24:31.21] SPEAKER 5: You said-- were you also present at the riots in the 1940s?
  • [01:24:36.58] MARY MARTIN: Yes, I was in the middle of the riot. But were afraid, we were afraid they would burn our house up, shoot us or something. But it only lasted one day, from early in the afternoon, well, like 10, 11 o'clock in the morning, until about 8 o'clock at night. And by that time, things had quieted down. And the police had taken control.
  • [01:24:59.39] SPEAKER 5: So what caused the riots then?
  • [01:25:01.33] MARY MARTIN: What?
  • [01:25:01.78] SPEAKER 5: What caused the riots that time?
  • [01:25:03.46] MARY MARTIN: What caused the riot?
  • [01:25:04.92] SPEAKER 5: Mm-hmm.
  • [01:25:06.58] MARY MARTIN: People were unhappy with the way they were treated. They were treated like second class citizens. And the education wasn't up to par. And the jobs were hard to get. So they were just fed up with the way they were living. And they were not advancing like they'd like to advance. So they just rioted. And after the riot, I think things began to get better. And as the years have gone by, they're much better today.
  • [01:25:32.80] SPEAKER 5: So where were you during the riot? And what did you do?
  • [01:25:35.20] MARY MARTIN: Well, I was working during the riot. But I didn't go out on the street for fear I'd get shot. So we'd just look out the window. And I didn't take part in it, of course.
  • [01:25:48.88] SPEAKER 5: So who was shooting?
  • [01:25:50.04] MARY MARTIN: Huh?
  • [01:25:50.38] SPEAKER 5: Who was shooting? Was it the police?
  • [01:25:53.17] MARY MARTIN: Some of the white people were shooting and some of the black people were shooting back at them. I can't remember too much. That was way back in 1967.
  • [01:26:02.36] SPEAKER 5: 19--
  • [01:26:03.45] MARY MARTIN: What was it? Wasn't it '67?
  • [01:26:05.73] SPEAKER 5: The '40s.
  • [01:26:07.56] MARY MARTIN: Oh, in the '40s. What date do you have?
  • [01:26:11.72] SPEAKER 5: I already asked you about the one in the '60s.
  • [01:26:13.12] MARY MARTIN: All right. OK. Well, now, what are you asking me again?
  • [01:26:17.23] SPEAKER 5: The riot in the 1940s.
  • [01:26:19.48] MARY MARTIN: Well, I lived through the riot in the 1940s, but I can't remember anything spectacular that happened during that time. No uprisings near where I lived.
  • [01:26:30.68] SPEAKER 5: Where did you live then?
  • [01:26:32.23] MARY MARTIN: I lived on LaSalle Boulevard, near Claremont Street.
  • [01:26:37.21] SPEAKER 5: So you lived there for a while.
  • [01:26:38.89] MARY MARTIN: Yes. I lived there during the riot, on LaSalle, near Claremont, near Chicago, in an all black neighborhood.
  • [01:26:53.99] SPEAKER 5: So how old were you during that first riot?
  • [01:26:57.34] MARY MARTIN: I can't remember how old I was. I'd have to think. But as I said, I'm 95 bad right now. So 1940, I was in the 50s I guess, 60, somewhere along in there.
  • [01:27:11.98] SPEAKER 5: So we're you scared during the riot?
  • [01:27:13.90] MARY MARTIN: Yes, I was scared, yes, yes.
  • [01:27:16.75] SPEAKER 5: This was before you had children, right?
  • [01:27:18.89] MARY MARTIN: I had little children during the riots. So we kept them in. Because I married in 1944, 1946 I got married. So I'd forgotten when the riot was. What year? Does it say that? What year it was?
  • [01:27:33.91] SPEAKER 5: 1967.
  • [01:27:36.21] MARY MARTIN: '60 something. Yeah, I had little children during the riot. But I might not have been working exactly where I had to go out every day, because I just worked part time until my children went to school all day.
  • [01:27:53.39] SPEAKER 5: Did any of your friends or family participate?
  • [01:27:56.06] MARY MARTIN: No, no. Mostly the young people did the participating, the young boys and the young men. And the women and children stayed behind. It's just a lot of verbal abuse and things like that.
  • [01:28:18.60] SPEAKER 5: So there weren't any real fatalities, like nobody actually got hurt?
  • [01:28:22.19] MARY MARTIN: I'm sorry.
  • [01:28:23.00] SPEAKER 5: So not many people actually got hurt?
  • [01:28:25.79] MARY MARTIN: Oh, I don't think so, no, not too many people. I don't know if any people were killed at all. Just some shooting was done, a lot of shooting. But I don't remember anybody dying as a result.
  • [01:28:56.67] SPEAKER 5: So, do you know what happened to the Sacred Heart? I'm sorry.
  • [01:29:07.82] MARY MARTIN: You asked a question. Do I know what happened, what?
  • [01:29:11.29] SPEAKER 1: Do you know what happened to the Sacred Heart Cemetery? There's like a statue on it. It was painted in one of the riots in Detroit. It was painted black, because it was originally like a marble white color. It's on Linwood near the Boston-Edison District.
  • [01:29:24.50] MARY MARTIN: No, I don't. I really don't. I can't tell you. I can't answer that question.
  • [01:29:29.94] SPEAKER 1: OK.
  • [01:29:54.10] MARY MARTIN: This is the Legacy Project. And my name is Mary Martin. And I live in Detroit. It's been my pleasure to work with the three fine young students.
  • [01:30:10.39] SPEAKER 5: Thank you.
  • [01:30:11.57] SPEAKER 1: Thank you.